To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

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teddy
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To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby teddy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:50 am

I want to feel safe when i walk him, plus i want to use the piece of equipment to help feel safe and calm around other people, groups, or large crowds, and conjested area's...Im doing this for two reasons...Safety him and myself from him lashing out at somebody, and to protect a situation from happening...

He doesn't lash out or snap at everybody just certain people...He never show aggression toward woman, but will show it certain males people not all...Like he picks and chooses who he wants to be nice with..

I want to walk down at the beach to show him off, get him out of the house, and have him more around human contact...And i want to do this with the muzzle even i think he won't lash out or snap at somebody or another dog...

What you all think?

Im looking at getting him a very well ventelated muzzle...the basket weeve design...

just looking for thoughts and insights on this...

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby MikeInTacoma » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:15 am

Whoa -- Noah lashes out at certain people when you're walking him in public? That's a training issue, not an equipment issue, in my amateur opinion. (This thread talks about the sort of training I think is needed, called Desensitization and Counter-conditioning: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135418&start=15 Basically, helping him not be afraid of those certain people. But you have to do it the right way, paying a lot of attention to his body language, or it could backfire. Getting a good trainer to help with it is probably a good idea.)

I believe getting your dog used to a muzzle is a good idea -- you never know when he might need to wear one (like, at the vet emergency room, or a police traffic stop or something), and it'll be less stressful for him if he's already used to it. Here's how you train Noah to be cool wearing a muzzle:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=134516#p1787700

Basket weave -- I don't like some of them. Some don't really let the dog drink; others don't really stop the dog from biting. But some of them are good. :dunno:

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby Flibgit » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:51 am

Amber's fairly content wearing her muzzle. We use it at random times on walks just so she associates it with good things. She wears it every time she goes to the vet. She definitely could be more comfortable in it, but at least she doesn't think it's a punishment to wear it.

When Amber wears her muzzle, I'm more relaxed because I know she won't be able to hurt any other dogs. My level of relaxation affects Amber's level of relaxation. But as stated before, lashing out a people (your dog) is a whole different story than being leash-reactive toward other dogs (my dog).

I'm sure there will be posts by people who are much more knowledgeable than I am, but you might have more luck with responses in the training and behavior forum.

Amber wears this style of muzzle http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Products- ... B001EBG8JG

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teddy
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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby teddy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:41 pm

Okay hold on...i used the wrong word...

walking he is just fine...i can walk him around dog parks in dog parks at the dog beach and crowded areas...

Its only when there are may be one or two people walking by..he doesn't like people wearing hoods....he doesn't like when he feels threaten when looked at...he starts to growl and then leap at them...its scary as chocolate...

but at home people can walk in and out of the house all day...he is fine...stranger or no stranger...

Its really weird...i have tried everything...

i can take him to the vet and he does fine there and i get nothing but awesome compliments...i don't know i will try this weekend with and with out the muzzle and see what happens...

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby Siberian » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:10 pm

Teddy,
there is nothing wrong in using muzzle as part of the training routine. For some reason in America people attach such stigma to muzzles...

My dog was less than stable. I couldn't trust her, and I really didn't trust myself either. So, when she went through her training/behavior modification program, she wore a muzzle. It made me calmer and more balanced (to know she can't hurt anyone), and naturally she fed off this energy as well. It allowed me to go through training without fears attached. And when we encountered situation where she would normally act up, I was calm and collected enough (again, because I knew she can't hurt anyone) to offer her guidance in that exact moment. I didn't want to take her out of situations where she might feel the need to display aggressive behavior, because every situation is a training opportunity. Muzzle gave us a chance to enter those opportunities safely.

Now, the only time she wears her muzzle is at lure racing :)

The muzzle I used was this one: http://www.kristalas.com/muzzles/pit-bull-muzzle.htm

It is beautifully made, gorgeous color, and doesn't have that "threatening" look.

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby teddy » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:02 pm

Thank you so much for that post...and thank you for the link...I just ordered one for noah... :thumbsup:

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby WackyJacki » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:22 pm

Are you working with a trainer? I highly recommend you do.

I have conditioned Stella to wear a basket muzzle so that we can work around other dogs (she is DA). However, I still don't give her the opportunity to get within bite reach of the other dog. Why? Because even though she won't actually be able to bite them, she is still practicing the behavior. She then learns lunge/snap/bite = uncomfortable thing goes away. It is a self rewarding behavior. This is why it's important to work within threshold (using a muzzle just to be extra safe if you need to) and avoid letting them get to that point. If your dog randomly lashes out at people, you need to keep him at a distance and work from there. :thumbsup:

I would definitely avoid chaotic places like the beach for now... but that's just my opinion...

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby chelsea00133 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:30 pm

Siberian wrote:Teddy,


The muzzle I used was this one: http://www.kristalas.com/muzzles/pit-bull-muzzle.htm

It is beautifully made, gorgeous color, and doesn't have that "threatening" look.


Honestly, I think that is a horrible muzzle for this situation. Sure it looks good, and isnt quite as "threatening" as others, but the dog cant open its mouth at all.

With a basket muzzle, there is room for the dog to open its mouth to pant, in that muzzle it clearly keeps the mouth shut and has no room for panting. If the whole purpose of getting a muzzle is for the dog to wear it on a walk, why in the world would you want one that prevents him from panting?
Unless you WANT your dog to overheat on walks, I would absolutly not use that muzzle. Get a wire basket one thats wide enough for him to open his mouth to pant. Who cares what anyone thinks of it, its for HIS saftey, YOUR saftey, and "hoodie wearing guys that walk past you" 's saftey.

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby Siberian » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:27 am

chelsea00133 wrote:
Siberian wrote:Teddy,


The muzzle I used was this one: http://www.kristalas.com/muzzles/pit-bull-muzzle.htm

It is beautifully made, gorgeous color, and doesn't have that "threatening" look.


Honestly, I think that is a horrible muzzle for this situation. Sure it looks good, and isnt quite as "threatening" as others, but the dog cant open its mouth at all.

With a basket muzzle, there is room for the dog to open its mouth to pant, in that muzzle it clearly keeps the mouth shut and has no room for panting. If the whole purpose of getting a muzzle is for the dog to wear it on a walk, why in the world would you want one that prevents him from panting?
Unless you WANT your dog to overheat on walks, I would absolutly not use that muzzle. Get a wire basket one thats wide enough for him to open his mouth to pant. Who cares what anyone thinks of it, its for HIS saftey, YOUR saftey, and "hoodie wearing guys that walk past you" 's saftey.


Thank you for your input and ASSumption ;) This is the muzzle my dog still uses while lure racing (running with her mouth open). She can pant and open her mouth just fine.

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby maximusflys » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:21 am

chelsea00133 wrote:
Siberian wrote:Teddy,


The muzzle I used was this one: http://www.kristalas.com/muzzles/pit-bull-muzzle.htm

It is beautifully made, gorgeous color, and doesn't have that "threatening" look.


Honestly, I think that is a horrible muzzle for this situation. Sure it looks good, and isnt quite as "threatening" as others, but the dog cant open its mouth at all.

With a basket muzzle, there is room for the dog to open its mouth to pant, in that muzzle it clearly keeps the mouth shut and has no room for panting. If the whole purpose of getting a muzzle is for the dog to wear it on a walk, why in the world would you want one that prevents him from panting?
Unless you WANT your dog to overheat on walks, I would absolutly not use that muzzle. Get a wire basket one thats wide enough for him to open his mouth to pant. Who cares what anyone thinks of it, its for HIS saftey, YOUR saftey, and "hoodie wearing guys that walk past you" 's saftey.



Have you even used that muzzle before?

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby Adrianne » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:28 am

Please see a trainer for Noahs fear issues, muzzle or not.

We really don't need more less than stable dogs out in public. I know you are careful and won't become a headliner but every time a dog, especially a pit bull sadly, lunges at a seemingly innocent person it is a potential knock against our right to own the dogs we please the way we please.

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby msvette2u » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:04 am

I can't see how wearing a muzzle is going to help - people will recoil when they see a muzzled dog, especially a pit bull.
They'll assume he's vicious and can't be out without one (which is true, actually).
Like others, I'd suggest you get a trainer on board. If he's a threat to people, leave him home. Period.

FTR, I'd say the same about GSDs (or any breed for that matter), and FTR, I've had people recoil from Luke, who is a pussycat but he's huge and black and looks intimidating.
But you slap a muzzle on a dog and automatically people see "vicious".

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby haircrazie016 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:10 am

i dont think theres anything wrong with wearing a muzzle, if he needs it. I'd rather people see it and steer clear, if my dog is actually a threat to them.

That said, most definitely contact a behaviorist to work on the issue, but in the mean time there is nothing wrong with taking necessary precautions!

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby chelsea00133 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:02 pm

Siberian wrote:
Thank you for your input and ASSumption ;) This is the muzzle my dog still uses while lure racing (running with her mouth open). She can pant and open her mouth just fine.

No need to ASSume that my post was an assumption ;) Because it wasn't. If the muzzle works good for your dog, then thats great.
When Ive seen the muzzle used on a dog(55-60lb pit bull) the dog clearly could not open his mouth much. He COULD open his mouth, but not enough to be able to pant normaly.

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Re: To Muzzle Or Not to Muzzle

Postby KadillacGrrl » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:39 pm

I used the same leather muzzle when I raced Kitty, and trust me she was panting just fine... and I was feeding her treats through it. I like that muzzle a lot!


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