A couple agility (foundation) questions

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Nichole
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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby Nichole » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:12 pm

I was mulling over how to deal with Sadie's right turn phobia.

In class last night the instructor was having us do a tight turn around a cone - a tight/fast 360 and then toss a toy to have them keep going with that momentum. (this was the dog, of course. Not us. We were stationary, luring around the cone with the toy). It was a right clockwise turn. Sadie fought it a few times but when I slowed the lure down, she succeeded. It was wide - far from a fast, tight turn... but she did it. I may use this to help mold her into a right turn without the cone. See if we can build some muscle memory so she doesn't fight the clockwise spin.

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby nic » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:17 pm

Nichole wrote:
nic wrote:http://youtu.be/VTPXiLatK60

I use a front cross around jump 3,the Mookie is on my right,but i pick her up with my left,to change the side of me she is on,I also use a front cross at the end of the dog walk contact.


I think that is exactly what our instructor is going for. So that's called a front cross? Ok. That helps. I'm a visual person and my brain requires I see the end product to know what I am moving towards. Thanks!
Do you have it on a verbal or just a hand signal?

Sarah wrote:Sadie is going to have to learn to turn clockwise, though. There will be places on a course where she needs to do that.

nic wrote:Has Sadie been taught to turn in one direction for her flyball turn?Just teach her the left and right spin,she'll be turning the other way in no time at all. :)


Sadie's deep rooted counter clockwise turn goes a little deeper than flyball. When she was 6 months old or so she learned spin. I tried teaching her both directions but her brain refused to bend her body in a clockwise direction. So for 2.5 years she has been doing a counter clickwise (left) spin and never a clickwise (right) spin. So naturally she turns left in flyball. But there is something about the context... when I take her swimming and toss her the ball, she grabs the ball and turns right all in one smooth action. If you set the ball on the ground and tell her to get it she will turn right or left 50/50 (essentially a sloppy spin). So she CAN do it. But when I am trying to lure her? Forget it. She fights it with every fiber in her body. I am going to try to try and teach spin a slightly different way to try to change up the context.


Yep that's a front cross :) Its not the best illustration of one though as I was only just getting the hang of them then.
I should have had my drive arm (the arm nearest the dog),my right in that instance out more definatly,but you get the idea,I am changing her from one arm to the other,from one side of me to the other.
I use a hand signal and verbal.When I am 'driving' her,I have just the drive arm out,if my other arm (check arm) comes up it means check your stride (shorten it) because you are going to be turning tight,and I need you to take the power off.
Good luck with training her to spin the other way.I'm sure you'll get it in no time at all. :)

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby nic » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:18 pm

Nichole wrote:I was mulling over how to deal with Sadie's right turn phobia.

In class last night the instructor was having us do a tight turn around a cone - a tight/fast 360 and then toss a toy to have them keep going with that momentum. (this was the dog, of course. Not us. We were stationary, luring around the cone with the toy). It was a right clockwise turn. Sadie fought it a few times but when I slowed the lure down, she succeeded. It was wide - far from a fast, tight turn... but she did it. I may use this to help mold her into a right turn without the cone. See if we can build some muscle memory so she doesn't fight the clockwise spin.


Absolutly that will work :)

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby Sarah » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:47 pm

nic wrote:Tess does follow you nicely,and to be honest alot of times I could just use my body too.I can also keep up with the dogs most of the time,but with Shady if he thinks I am 'racing' him he knocks jumps down,so the more static I can be whilst handling him the better.


This is the individual who most of my handling system more or less comes from:



I don't study with her directly, but the people I've been taking classes from since Tess was a pup were originally Daisy's students. Daisy mostly follows Mecklenburg's system, though at least as it was taught to me, there isn't slavish adherence. That's where the root of it is from, though.

The other person I've got a lot of stuff from is this person:



She picks up a lot of stuff all over. Most of my blind cross information came from her; before that, I only dared use them at tunnels and contacts, she taught us how to do them correctly so I can use them anywhere. (Daisy does use them too, but it's more recent for her)

So that's the basis of the handling system I use, and it's very movement based. Verbals are secondary, and I don't use them much. Not moving=death according to Barb lol (her seminars are awesome!), and that is certainly the case with my dogs. I can use deceleration or briefly stopping as a turning cue for my dog, but if I expect them to just keep moving out while I hold back, I won't have much luck.

So, never had a real use for verbal turn commands. Until now, with Pirate's running dogwalk, I am always going to be way behind, so I'll need a way to turn him from behind. It's still not something I'd use if I could signal the turn with my movement, though.

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby nic » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:09 pm

Sarah wrote:
nic wrote:Tess does follow you nicely,and to be honest alot of times I could just use my body too.I can also keep up with the dogs most of the time,but with Shady if he thinks I am 'racing' him he knocks jumps down,so the more static I can be whilst handling him the better.


This is the individual who most of my handling system more or less comes from:



I don't study with her directly, but the people I've been taking classes from since Tess was a pup were originally Daisy's students. Daisy mostly follows Mecklenburg's system, though at least as it was taught to me, there isn't slavish adherence. That's where the root of it is from, though.

The other person I've got a lot of stuff from is this person:



She picks up a lot of stuff all over. Most of my blind cross information came from her; before that, I only dared use them at tunnels and contacts, she taught us how to do them correctly so I can use them anywhere. (Daisy does use them too, but it's more recent for her)

So that's the basis of the handling system I use, and it's very movement based. Verbals are secondary, and I don't use them much. Not moving=death according to Barb lol (her seminars are awesome!), and that is certainly the case with my dogs. I can use deceleration or briefly stopping as a turning cue for my dog, but if I expect them to just keep moving out while I hold back, I won't have much luck.

So, never had a real use for verbal turn commands. Until now, with Pirate's running dogwalk, I am always going to be way behind, so I'll need a way to turn him from behind. It's still not something I'd use if I could signal the turn with my movement, though.



Fantastic runs in those vids. :)
I was thinking I shouldn't have used the word static,as I never actually stand still sending the dogs away from me,but like you said,use deceleration or stopping briefly,(but versus the rushing round like a headless chicken like I did with Shady it feels static lol )

This is Dave who I train with,and who has improved me 100%.(check out the weave entry :) )

http://youtu.be/jtJ7OBou7iQ

Have you decided how you are gonna train Pirate's turns off the dog walk?

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby Leslie H » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:36 pm

Scheme's just learning groundwork mainly. Last night my instructor showed us the beginning of an exersize that prepares a dog for rear crosses. Right now, she's learning to bend her neck in response to turning my shoulders. She sits, and I straddle her, with her slightly ahead of me. At this very beginning stage, I use a treat to lure her to bend her neck. I turn my shoulders left, hold the treat in my right hand, lure her head almost down and to the left, and treat. Then I turn right, treat in the left hand.
We're doing lots of other things, a variety of return to heel exersizes (though "heel" in this case is either my left or right), entry into the weaves, going out and around a cone or standard, going out to a target, table, tunnels, starting the 2 on 2 off position, lots of little stuff.

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby Sarah » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:25 am

nic wrote:
Have you decided how you are gonna train Pirate's turns off the dog walk?


Well, I'm not going to for a really long time. roflmao With the running contact, I want it really solid before I teach him to turn. So, not in a hurry.

He already has a spin left or right on a verbal command, all my dogs do (Pirate's cues are "port" and "starboard"). Here he is showing that he is well capable of applying that to a turn with agility obstacles:



I haven't really kept up working on it, but it's not a hurry, because I don't intend to add this for awhile. Eventually, I'll add movement. I may stay with using jumps for the initial training, so as not to mess up his DW. When I'm comfortable with his response to the cue in motion, and feel that he can handle turns without messing up his contacts, I'll put them together.

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby nic » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:26 am

Aha!
That's why I thought your dogs had direction commands,I remember this vid! :)
Oh yeah you're right,don't want to start screwing with his running contacts just yet by putting turns in at the end.

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Re: A couple agility (foundation) questions

Postby Nichole » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:09 am

Just wanted to give a little update:

Tonight at practice we did a five obstacle course (jump, tunnel, hoop, sharp 180 into A-frame, jump) and Sadie did well. That 180 degree turn was good practice for me. I did it the first time in such a way that directed Sadie back through the hoop she had just completed. They showed me how to back away from it in such a way to lure her back into me and lead her onward to the A-frame. Consequently we did much better the 2nd time!

I got a lot of commentary about Sadie after doing that run. She talks a lot. She talks even more when she is tuned in to me and taking direction from me. She does it a lot while we are doing obedience. I tell her to come to front, she chips and talks while doing it. I tell her to swing, she chirps as she swings. I think it's her way of communicating back with me. Maybe it's her eagerness, I don't know. But she was chirping at me through the whole course we ran tonight! When she chirps I know she's tuned in to what I am saying and doing, so I guess it's fine. Just cute :)

Sadie also had a break through with the teeter. So glad to have some progress there. She knew both ends gave rewards, she just wasn't connecting the dots in the sequence that needs to be followed to get those treats. It's sometimes hard to control her impulses which was making the teeter double hard. I would try to lure her away to start again at the end of the teeter and she would break away to jump on it from any ol' angle and smack the end of the teeter down. Ugh. Frustrating. But TONIGHT she listened to me. When she started to do her own thing, I told her to leave it and she did. She lined up where I asked her to line up. And she STUCK HER FRIKKIN CONTACT AT THE END OF THE TEETER! Amazing! We are doing 4 on contact with the teeter btw.

The next thing I need to work hard on is the direction thing. I rewatched your video above, Sarah, and I definitely need to buckle down and work on that now. I think I'm just going to use right and left. I just have this back habit of mixing up my directions. Take a left! Oh, I mean your other left. That sort of thing. I don't think renaming them will help me in that matter. I apologize to Sadie in advance :tongue:


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