WHOA noticed this during her bath - please look

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Nickdawg
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Postby Nickdawg » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:52 pm

usually more expensive food means feeding less, don't feel bad, you didn't know.

as far as bathing I have always heard rarely is best as it disturbs the natural oils in their coat. My guy 2 X a year, maybe 3 .... doesn't sound like much :oops: but that was what I was directed by the groomers.

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Postby crazy4pits » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:27 pm

Just see what your dog does well on. All dogs are different. I bought better quality food only to have the dogs look like crap and the poo was awful. I went back to the crap food, Pedigree to be honest. And have had no issues since. No one overweigh, poo is not out of control. They don't eat more of it either.

It's trail and error till you find the right food for you dog. I did this for a long time trying foods that were recommended to me but went back to the "crap" I would rather they not be eating corn and fillers but hey that's what they do good on.

I do add salmon oil to their food. I would not bathe your dog so much. Mine get it when they are really stinky or dirty. If they are not bad they get a bath once a month. Or when we are going away I don't want people smelling my stinky dog...LOL

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Postby rgyoung777 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:31 pm

I'm looking at those photos, and though she definitely has flaky skin, and might be itchy, it is normal for dogs to have sparser/thinner hair in their armpits, inner legs, belly and behind their ears. If you're noticing that these areas of thin hair are symmetrical (meaning it's thin in both armpits, at both knees, and behind both ears), it is probably just her normal hair pattern.

She may also have a flea allergy or a poor reaction to the food she is eating, but some of the areas of thin hair you're noticing may indeed be normal.

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Postby MaggielSelah » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:50 pm

crazy4pits wrote:Just see what your dog does well on. All dogs are different. I bought better quality food only to have the dogs look like crap and the poo was awful. I went back to the crap food, Pedigree to be honest. And have had no issues since. No one overweigh, poo is not out of control. They don't eat more of it either.

It's trail and error till you find the right food for you dog. I did this for a long time trying foods that were recommended to me but went back to the "crap" I would rather they not be eating corn and fillers but hey that's what they do good on.

I do add salmon oil to their food. I would not bathe your dog so much. Mine get it when they are really stinky or dirty. If they are not bad they get a bath once a month. Or when we are going away I don't want people smelling my stinky dog...LOL


Well we swim on a regular basis as well - is this going to affect her natural oils?

So now I'm really torn. Because I was noticing today that her coat is really shiny - even on this evil Benefit. After some (quick) reading on both demodectic mange and sarcoptic mange it doesn't appear (to me, an uneducated obviously not a vet lay person) that she has mange. I don't see any hoping fleas and have not been encouraged by my vet to start a flea program.

But she has always seemed to have super soft poop except that one time when she got sick (three times in a very short amount of time) and you guys (PBF forum posters) recommended pumpkin (not the spice) filling to stiffen them up because she also had very runny poo.

Anyways, I'm going to hit the vet tomorrow - all records and pictures (of back pack) in hand. I'm still really torn as to which dog food to try. The Kirkland bag would be more economical because it's 40 lbs I believe and that would make my husband very happy. I was just reading another thread where they were discussing how Canidae is changing their formula. I followed the link and the specific thing they are adding is peas - I'm curious, how is this bad? What's wrong with this change?

I also visited the Dog Lovers Gold site but couldn't even see how much they were to see if they were in my price range (I imagine not since I couldn't find a price or even a store to call for a price). Anyways, I would rather feed her a little more expensive good food and have her healthy than take her to the vet every few weeks because something is messing with her system. (<-- That's my "husband" reasoning. ;) ) Me personally, I just want the best for her.

Also, how often do you brush your guys? Since she's a lab mix, her coat is flat, but not as short as say the foster we have. She needs brushing probably once a week if not more.

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Postby MaggielSelah » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:51 pm

rgyoung777 wrote:I'm looking at those photos, and though she definitely has flaky skin, and might be itchy, it is normal for dogs to have sparser/thinner hair in their armpits, inner legs, belly and behind their ears. If you're noticing that these areas of thin hair are symmetrical (meaning it's thin in both armpits, at both knees, and behind both ears), it is probably just her normal hair pattern.

She may also have a flea allergy or a poor reaction to the food she is eating, but some of the areas of thin hair you're noticing may indeed be normal.


I'm wondering if this could be stress related as well?

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Postby Hammer 4 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:47 pm

For sparse fur spots..aply some Nu Stock...our pup had the same thing, and after applying the nu stock, he's now a hairy little pup.. lol

Actually he had a bout with mange which didn't help matters. We've also changed his diet to Taste of The Wild brand. :))

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Postby hwillm1977 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:08 pm

rgyoung777 wrote:I'm looking at those photos, and though she definitely has flaky skin, and might be itchy, it is normal for dogs to have sparser/thinner hair in their armpits, inner legs, belly and behind their ears. If you're noticing that these areas of thin hair are symmetrical (meaning it's thin in both armpits, at both knees, and behind both ears), it is probably just her normal hair pattern.

She may also have a flea allergy or a poor reaction to the food she is eating, but some of the areas of thin hair you're noticing may indeed be normal.


Marley is bald, completely bald, other than a few wispy fine hairs under his armpits and on most of his belly... he had a lot more hair as a puppy, but it seems like it thinned out until he was around two... hopefully that's all it is for your dog and nothings really wrong.

I agree that some of the spots look like it could be a flea allergy too... my cat has that, and did get bitten by fleas when we first brought Marley home from the BYB. He lost patches of hair at first, then had open sores and was almost entirely bald on his back half... it slowly cleared up as we got rid of all the fleas. On a black dog you would rarely, if ever, actually see a flea unless the dog is severely infested. I never ever saw one on my cat, Marley's back looked like it was crawling with all the fleas on him :yucky:

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Postby MaggielSelah » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:44 pm

Okay update everyone. I just could not wait until morning (I can be very impatient) and took Maya straight away to the vet. Of course, I stopped by one of the pet stores that closed early and picked up a 44 lb bag of Canidae All Life Stages Four Meat Meals Dry Dog Food (I've linked in case anyone doesn't know what it is or wants to look at the ingredients). I went there first because they closed several hours before the vet did and wanted to be able to get Maya off of the evil Benefit ASAP. :po:

The vet performed a skin scrape, a fecal test to make sure there were no mites or parasites and she came back free and clear. :thumbsup: (Well of the skin scrape - we'll have the fecal test results tomorrow.)

Upon further review, the vet said Maya's skin looked really irritated and she agrees that Maya is allergic to something in the evil Benefit or whatever it is called. And to get her off of it ASAP. However, she wants her on a Food Allergy diet ASAP. I told her what I had just bought and she hands me a list of Purina dog foods. Huh? Aren't those bad?

I asked for a list of recommends and told I'd look into them more and get back to her. She said I'd need a prescription for some of them and to give them a call once I had made a decision. In the meantime, to feed Maya a cup of rice boiled in chicken until I was able to start the transition onto the new food.

She also gave me a hypoallergenic shampoo and creme rinse that contain essential fatty acids in them (?) and told me to start putting 1 TBSP of Fish oil (I forget the exact name) in her food each day and to not, under any circumstances bathe her for atleast three weeks. She also informed me no more Peanut Butter until Maya's coat clears up as well. And she's given me instructions on giving Maya Bendryl to keep her from itching and possibly becoming infected.

So I'm going to post the list she gave me below and would love some feedback. Perhaps you guys could recommend something as well. I don't want to get something that she will hate and I certainly don't want to get "crap" either. No matter what at this point, I'm looking at expensive (as everything on her list starts at $30 for a 10lb bag). Do you think I could just stick with the Canidae that I already bought?

Any thoughts and advice are totally welcome! :)

Royal Canin
-Hypoallergenic HP
-Sensitivity RC 21/LR (Duck & Potato)

Purina
-Hypoallergenic HA
- Low Antigen LA

Science Diet
-X/D
-Z/D

Thank you guys!

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Postby MaggielSelah » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:06 am

Thought I would add links to these guys. :D

MaggielSelah wrote:Royal Canin
-Hypoallergenic HP 19 <--If I'm reading this correctly, it seems to have soy in it like the Benefit. I don't see how this is going to help Maya. Am I missing something?
-Sensitivity RC 21/LR (Duck & Potato) <--- I didn't see any ingrediants listed here or anything but this one certainly has me interested. But, if I choose a good food for her and get the Flaxseed Oil and add it to the food each day - won't her coat repair itself?

Purina
-Hypoallergenic HA <-- Yeah I don't understand any of that stuff.
- Low Antigen LA

Science Diet
-X/D
-Z/D

Thank you guys!


To be honest, I'm not even really considering Science Diet since I could not even get her to touch it before. (Of course watch that be the one everyone will say to go get. ;) )

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Postby MaggielSelah » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:33 am

(I feel like I'm selling myself on the Canidae). From their website:

You can be assured your Adult dogs and cats are getting the best they deserve with our feral type diets which contain; 4 Antibiotic and Hormone free meats as the main ingredients which also includes whole grain Rice, balanced omega 6 and 3 fatty acids, probiotics, digestive enzymes, antioxidant vitamins, chelated minerals, and a total of 10 natural skin and coat conditioners. All of this without the use of allergic irritating corn, wheat, soy, or other cheap grain fractions or fillers. Just the perfect diet for your canines or felines.


And (from the 10 oils in their food):
Fish Meal - (Omega 3)
Essential fatty acids, controls skin inflammation, helps relieve itching & hot spots.

Flax Seed - (Omega 3)
Essential fatty acids, helps reduce allergy problems caused from flea bites and gives the coat a shiny luster.

Linoleic Acid - (Omega 6)
Essential fatty acids, helps to prevent moisture loss from cells that cause flaky, dry skin and coat.

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Postby Sarah » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:51 am

See how she does on the Canidae, since you already bought it. Though in general, if you want to deal with a potential allergy, it's best to try a simple food, with more limited carbohydrate/protein sources.

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Postby MaggielSelah » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:33 am

Sarah wrote:See how she does on the Canidae, since you already bought it. Though in general, if you want to deal with a potential allergy, it's best to try a simple food, with more limited carbohydrate/protein sources.


I haven't opened it yet, so I could take it back if needed. I just am having a hard time understanding what is going to be best for her based on what I'm reading online or perhaps there are better options out there.

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Postby Bustersmama » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:17 am

Some vets have a tendancy to be closed minded about the food they "recommend". In some cases, vets are paid to "recommend" certain foods. I listen to my vet most of the time, but when it comes to feeding time (unless you are dealing with kidney failure or something similar) I take what they say about food with a grain of salt.

That being said, I think Purina and SD is crap. I have no idea about Royal Canine, but I know you can find better ingredients in other dog foods.

Honestly, most dogs are allergic to corn. Beneful has a ton of it. I think a basic food switch will benifit your pup...and that her "allergy" can be resolved without putting her on a special food just yet. If after 9-12 weeks her condition hasnt changed, I would suggest a forumula with out grain, or maybe one with a salmon and potatoe base.

Lastly, my black (seal) colored dog has thinning hair. Medically, the vet hasnt found anything wrong with him, some dogs just have thinner hair in places. I have found that bathing him less helps a bit...but not much.

Good luck!

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Postby Kahlie » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:22 am

MaggielSelah - everything on your vet recommended list I personally am not a fan of. But, it is something that all the vets in my experience have vehemently recommended to my dog with allergies.

Actually, they recommended a vegetarian diet and allergy meds for his whole life. I didn't like those options.
He's on raw, no outbreaks since. Even from the other things that used to trouble him externally, ie: collars, stuffies..
Jasper seemed allergic to chicken, egg, and corn (and who knows what else that was in the foods).

I can't speak for the 'good foods' as I, frankly, don't remember what used to work for us. But I did want to share what I remembered *not* working for us.
If that makes sense lol

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Postby MaggielSelah » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:09 pm

I suspect that she's only having a reaction to the Beneful and doesn't really need one of those special diets (I could totally be wrong since I am not a vet). With my nephew, they did extensive testing to see what he was allergic to and how allergic he was to each thing - so when she mentioned FA - I asked for a dog version of these tests. Apparently, there's no such thing available for doggies yet. :(

Personally, with the posters mentioning Beneful being kind of known for causing skin issues, I really think it's that since she has no real way of knowing for sure that it's a FA, I would prefer to just get her on a high quality Dog Food ASAP (at this point, if I can get away with just spending $50 a month for Dog Food I'll be happy). I will be adding the Flax Seed oil (this is what the vet recommended - but is the Salmon oil better?).

Do I also need to re-evaluate what I am giving her for treats? I didn't really think about it until this morning (even though the vet did briefly mention it to her assistant last night...)

1. Natural Balance Chicken and Rice
2. PetSmart brand Milk Bone treats
3. Cubed Cheddar Cheese
4. Sweet Potato Baby Food
5. Boiled Chicken

I also sometimes get those Kong Liver treats to stuff her Black Kong with her, but usually just cube up some cheese (above), stuff it with PB or Yogurt, and then some deli ham or chicken.

I've also sent off an email to Dog Lover's Gold to inquire about prices and to see if there is anyone here in Vegas who sells it. I'll go ahead and start reading the B.A.R.F. thread so that I can have a backup plan should she not show improvement in 9 weeks on either the Canidae or if I'm lucky enough to get ahold of some DLG.

When I mentioned raw and hollositic diets to the vet last night, I did see her cringe and say, "Well those have not been tested and have no real standards. These that I am recommending have been tested and do have real standards. That's why they are recommended by most good vets." Thought I'd share. ;) But thankfully after reading a few of the stickies about what's going into commercial dog food, I did NOT want to buy any of those brands. :headbang:


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