New PB owner worried....

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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originalg00kster
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Postby originalg00kster » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:51 pm

well heres an update, went to the vet got her skin scraped. and yes she has demodex...i got her vaccinated since the owner before..(byb) bs'd with the records and what not. so she has her shots on file and what not. and her bath or whatever for the demodex is next week and its gonna be pricey...150 all together i beleive. oh well. whatever. as long as my pup is feeling a lot better... she also has hook worms again. i guess im gonna have to pick up all the poop around the house now. so she also got dewormed and she is now on some heartworm stuff.


pluss! she weighs a lot now haha. 7 month old pup. 46 lbs. last time we weighed her she was about 5 motnhs or so and she was 27 lbs. dang they grow fast.

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turtle
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Postby turtle » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:21 pm

originalg00kster wrote:well heres an update, went to the vet got her skin scraped. and yes she has demodex...and her bath or whatever for the demodex is next week .


I would do some research about demodex and its treatments.

Vets usualy want to do the dips but those are very toxic and hard on the dog.

It's usually an immune system problem with pups and they normally out grow it.

I would look into treating it with Ivermectin orally and supplementing her diet rather than the toxic dips.

But do some searching and reading here as there are lots of threads about demodex both here and on the net.
.

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AkainePSP
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Postby AkainePSP » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:50 pm

Lila started out with a small spot on her tail when we first got her. We were at the vet once a month being treated for allergies. I changed vets 2 months ago. Lila had almost no hair when we started going to the new vet. We were on cephalexin 500mg 2 x's per day for secondary bacterial infections and we have been on oral ivermectin for 2 months. She had another scraping friday while at the vets for her spay and she is still showing mites, they saw at least 10 on the slides. So we are continuing the ivermectin at a higher dose.


You can see pics of Lila before and after we started treatment for demodecric mange.

http://flickr.com/photos/62855126@N00/collections/72157607742222421/


Kelly

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originalg00kster
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Postby originalg00kster » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:25 am

wow i appreciate the replies guys. should i tell my vet to post pone or what? or should i ask them is there any other way besides the toxic dips ? im gonna do some researching.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:48 am

AkainePSP wrote:Lila started out with a small spot on her tail when we first got her. We were at the vet once a month being treated for allergies. I changed vets 2 months ago. Lila had almost no hair when we started going to the new vet. We were on cephalexin 500mg 2 x's per day for secondary bacterial infections and we have been on oral ivermectin for 2 months. She had another scraping friday while at the vets for her spay and she is still showing mites, they saw at least 10 on the slides. So we are continuing the ivermectin at a higher dose.


You can see pics of Lila before and after we started treatment for demodecric mange.

http://flickr.com/photos/62855126@N00/collections/72157607742222421/


Kelly


Very good advice.
I'd go with oral ivermectin, purchasing a bottle of cattle Ivomec, NOT pour-on, it's called Ivermectin 1% - this will also deworm her but not for tape worms. You find it in a feed store, or you can buy it online at places like www.vetmeddirect.com as Cattle Ivermectin or Ivomec.
Generic ivermectin is cheaper than the actual "Ivomec". It's 1% though, NOT POUR ON and not Ivermectin PLUS or Ivomec plus. JUST IVERMECTIN 1%.

The dosage, if your vet advises it would be best, but if they don't, the dosage is .1 cc / 10lbs. of body weight.
This means a 100lb. dog would get 1cc . Since most syringes are sold as 3 cc minimum, you need an INSULIN syringe to draw it up from the bottle (syringe/needle combo) then take the needle off and give it to her orally.

To clarify - a 50lb. dog would get 1/2 cc. , or .5 cc - not 1 cc or 5 ccs.
With her being close to 50lbs. you could give her 1/2 a cc or .5 cc.

All that said, ask your vet to skip the Mitaban bath and try oral ivermectin and ask them to give you the dosage for her, it is called "off label" use since it's labeled for cattle but it works well in dogs as well as other animals when used as directed by your vet, or above.

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Postby MsPsychotic » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 am

I'd seriously reconsider the dips/baths that your vet recommended.

When we adopted Bear, he had a pretty severe case of generalized demo-mange. I took Bear to the vet that the shelter recommended. The vet there recommended mitaban dips. Once a week, for at least a month. They were pricey, but I wasn't thinking of cost I just wanted Bear healthy again. After nearly $1000 worth of vet bills and two and a half months of visits, I took Bear to a new vet for a second opinion.

From vet A: I was being told, "The mites are almost all gone, it should only take one or two more dips." I had been told that for a month.

I took Bear to the new vet a day after a dip from the first vet. The new vet did a scrape and came back to the exam room and said, "I don't see ANY mites on Bear. I scraped in five different spots."

The new vet said that the reason he was still bald/thin in spots is because he had a secondary infection as a side effect from the irritated mange spots and the toxic dips. So, he was given Ceph (an antibiotic) and a months worth of Ivermectin as a precaution. The two prescriptions cost me as much as one dip/visit to vet A.

I took him in a month later to vet B and his infection was gone. His fur was growing back well. He's been fine ever since.

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Postby Venomous » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:12 am

I'd go with your vet. Or talk to a 2nd vet that you trust. Get a 2nd opinion. I know one of my best friends APBT had mange really bad most of his life. After about 2 years of dips and diet changes he finally has it under control. But it was rough and very expensive to get over it all. The dips are not an easy thing to do either. I believe it does hurt the dog. But hey, when we break bones or have skin rashes, it hurts us too. So, if you are sick, you have to deal with the treatment, no matter what it is in order to get better.

Just my 0.02 :)

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:32 am

http://www.drugs.com/vet/mitaban.html

Warning
Toxicology studies conducted in the dog and other species suggest amitraz may alter the animal's ability to maintain homeostasis. Animals treated with MITABAN (amitraz) should not be subjected to stress for a period of at least 24 hours posttreatment. Adverse reactions including three fatalities were reported during the clinical studies. In excess of 1100 patients with generalized demodicosis were topically treated with MITABAN.


Adverse Reactions And Side Effects
Ingestion of MITABAN may increase the risk of adverse effects. Therefore, appropriate care should be exercised both during and immediately after MITABAN application to minimize the opportunity for exposure by the oral route.

The most frequently observed adverse reaction in the clinical studies was transient sedation, which occurred in approximately 8% of the generalized demodicosis patients. This effect was observed within 2 to 6 hours posttreatment, and usually dissipated within 24 to 72 hours. In approximately 40% of the affected generalized demodicosis patients, the effect dissipated in less than 24 hours. Sedation often was less apparent when additional MITABAN (amitraz) treatments were applied, however in approximately 35% of the generalized demodicosis patients sleepiness was observed after each treatment. Transient pruritus, which clinical investigators considered to be an indirect effect due to an inflammatory reaction associated with dead mites, occurred in less than 3% of the generalized demodicosis patients. This effect usually occurred and dissipated within 24-48 hours posttreatment. Other observations noted by the clinical investigators and/or clients were a low incidence (less than 1%) of convulsions, ataxia, hyperexcitability, personality change, hypothermia, appetite stimulation, bloat, polyuria, vomition, diarrhea, anorexia, edema, erythema and other varying degrees of skin irritation. Three fatalities were recorded.

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AkainePSP
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Postby AkainePSP » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:10 pm

We did not do the dips infact our vet mentioned them but said she really didn't reccomend them they are costly and don't always work. 2 months ago Lila was practically bald. She lost a lot of fur even after the start of ivermectin treatment, now she has almost all of her fur back.

Due to the stress of her current spay and complications she had our vet said there was a good chance she may start to lose fur again, but we were increasing the ivermectin anyways and it would soon grow back.


Most of Lilas treatment was costly because she was misdiagnosed with allergies.

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originalg00kster
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Postby originalg00kster » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:41 pm

wow so is this Ivermectin(sp) just some sort of cream? that you put into the pup? i need to look at this because the dips they said it was gonna cost around $150 and with me being a student and all that is pretty costly. i appreciate everyone for the advice and information. i really have to talk to my vet or im gonna go to another and see what their opinion is.

oh p.s. she just started her heat =[ now she is wearing a diaper.
ahhhh crazy past few weeks.

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AkainePSP
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Postby AkainePSP » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:01 pm

I don't know if there is an ivermectin cream but what I am giving Lila is a clear liquid and its by mouth once per day. This months dose cost 21.00 and the skin scraping was another 20.00, but thats still way cheaper than 150.00 and I don't believe the oral ivermectin is as hard on the dogs as the dips. From what I have heard and read they are pretty hard on the dogs.


Kelly

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BamaBullies328
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Postby BamaBullies328 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:18 pm

Ivermectin is usually given in liquid form. I have a friend with a bully who has that now and is on Ivermectin and weekly dips (don't know what the dip contains). She also soaks her dog's feet in epsom salt daily (not sure why). Her pup looks much, much worse, and is a different bully breed (english). BYB's suck! My pit baby is from the same, and I'm working really hard to get him healthy! Good luck! :)

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:37 pm

originalg00kster wrote:wow so is this Ivermectin(sp) just some sort of cream? that you put into the pup? i need to look at this because the dips they said it was gonna cost around $150 and with me being a student and all that is pretty costly. i appreciate everyone for the advice and information. i really have to talk to my vet or im gonna go to another and see what their opinion is.

oh p.s. she just started her heat =[ now she is wearing a diaper.
ahhhh crazy past few weeks.


Did you read my post at all? lol

It's at the FEED STORE - or online. Here's a link.
http://www.dogcatetc.com/016006-50.html

Please go back and re-read my post about DOSAGES.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:39 pm

btw, that 50ml bottle would last 1 dog probably at least 6mos...

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AkainePSP
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Postby AkainePSP » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:40 pm

Something I did for Lila was make her a cream for her skin. I haven't had to use it in awhile as her skin has been pretty calm lately. I usually don't share my recipes but I know how hard it was for us until we changed vets and got on the right track. This did a world of good for Lila. She had terrible bacterial infections along with her demodectic mange. Within 3 days after using this her skin was no longer read and inflamed and most of the secondary infections were gone. This also helps with the itch. Something else I also started doing was giving Lila fish oil. I give her 2 1000 capsules daily.


1.6 oz Neem Oil
1.12 oz. Jojoba Oil
1.6 oz. Emu Oil
1.44 oz. Coconut Oil
.8 oz. St. Johns Wort Oil
.48 oz Fish Oil
1.6 oz. MSM dissolved in Green or Black Tea
3.2 oz. Tea (Not sure whether I will be using Lavender, Black or Green )
4.32 oz. Aloe Vera Juice
1.3 oz Emulsifying Wax

.2 oz Lavender Oil
Note infuse arnica, chamomile, and calendula in Jojoba & Fish Oil

.32 PRESERVATIVE


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