Corn -vs- Rice

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Allie
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Postby Allie » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:51 pm

Corn = BAD GAS with my dogs.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:52 pm

Do better?
How, digestively, or coat-wise?

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SoArkSi
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Postby SoArkSi » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:47 pm

msvette2u wrote:Do better?
How, digestively, or coat-wise?


Their coats were a little shinier, but the main thing is that they kept their stamina longer while hunting in the. woods and kept their weight on better. They are loosing a little bit of their muscle tone and I am having to feed them more on the by-product grain free food. But they also exercise A LOT too.

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Postby Red Brindle » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Dogs digestive systems are not suited for grains such as rice so you should avoid this and go with a grain free dog food.

Going grain free solves your dilemma as well. I have yet to find a grain free dog food that has poor quality ingredients in it so you won't have to bother worrying about corn meal vs corn...

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Postby SoArkSi » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:03 pm

That's glad to hear. The muscle tone loss could be from switching from a 30/20 food to a 26/18 food. But I do like the byproduct grain free food because of the ingredients and that it has glucosamine and condronamin (sp) in it. Omega 3 and 6, flax seed oil and yucca extract in it. I guess I will have to do a little bit more of a long term test with it.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:09 pm

The protein from meat would sustain them longer than the carbs in corn.
Which gets you further down the road, a thick, juicy steak and potatoes on the side,, or an ear of corn?? lol

The glucosamine in dog food isn't in a great enough amt. to help.
You should add a supplement if you're concerned about that.
Omega 3s are easy to add to any food with Grizzly wild salmon oil (if you were to switch).

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Postby 1lila1 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:42 pm

Neither corn or rice are good for dogs in large quantities, i.e. eating them everyday in a kibble. But the lesser of the two evils is rice! Corn is not even good for cows. It irritates their stomachs and causes infections so massive amounts of antibiotics are needed to keep them alive until slaughter. Why do you think grass fed beef is better quality beef? If corn is not even appropriate for cows why do people feed it to a carnivore like a dog??

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Postby texturejunkie » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:32 pm

SoArkSi wrote:That's glad to hear. The muscle tone loss could be from switching from a 30/20 food to a 26/18 food. But I do like the byproduct grain free food because of the ingredients and that it has glucosamine and condronamin (sp) in it. Omega 3 and 6, flax seed oil and yucca extract in it. I guess I will have to do a little bit more of a long term test with it.



my suspicions exactly .. your feeding a high carb low calorie food .. thats why your feeding more and your dogs are doing worse..

get a better grain free food .. with a lower feeding guideline and lower carb

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Postby texturejunkie » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:39 pm

btw .. what kibble are you feeding?
not all grainless or "natural, holistic" kibbles are equal in the slightest

and also ..

the glucosamine and chondroitin <b>in</b> processed kibble are more of a "preventative" approach. if your dog has joint issues you would most certainly have to supplement with something much more effective. there are endless products for that.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:27 pm

Red Brindle wrote:Dogs digestive systems are not suited for grains such as rice so you should avoid this and go with a grain free dog food.

Going grain free solves your dilemma as well. I have yet to find a grain free dog food that has poor quality ingredients in it so you won't have to bother worrying about corn meal vs corn...


And this is a bunch of bullpucky sold to you by the "premium" dog food companies to give them a leg up over better known names. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Grains are just as digestable as other starches, and according to my sources (small animal clinical nutrition 4th ed) carbohydrates from corn are 98% digestable and the protein is 87% digestable.

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/?p=ccmyth1_2

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths

Please note that the digestablity information listed for the grains on the dogfoodproject page is MUCH lower than what is provided in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th Ed... and I do not know where this website got their digestability studies.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:29 pm

texturejunkie wrote:my suspicions exactly .. your feeding a high carb low calorie food .. thats why your feeding more and your dogs are doing worse..


Carbohydrates and protein provide the same number of calories... only by adding fat can you increase the number of calories per cup... so the level of carbohydrates in the food has very little impact on the total calories per cup.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:33 pm

1lila1 wrote:Neither corn or rice are good for dogs in large quantities, i.e. eating them everyday in a kibble. But the lesser of the two evils is rice! Corn is not even good for cows. It irritates their stomachs and causes infections so massive amounts of antibiotics are needed to keep them alive until slaughter. Why do you think grass fed beef is better quality beef? If corn is not even appropriate for cows why do people feed it to a carnivore like a dog??


Corn and ALL GRAINS are bad for cows because it acidifies the ruminal pH and results in death of the bacteria that ferment the cows food. Cows do not digest their food, bacteria do, and if the bacterial population is out of whack beause of over-nutrition, then the cows die of bloat. Corn is not bad, its low fiber high calorie diets that are bad.

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Red Brindle
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Postby Red Brindle » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:47 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Red Brindle wrote:Dogs digestive systems are not suited for grains such as rice so you should avoid this and go with a grain free dog food.

Going grain free solves your dilemma as well. I have yet to find a grain free dog food that has poor quality ingredients in it so you won't have to bother worrying about corn meal vs corn...


And this is a bunch of bullpucky sold to you by the "premium" dog food companies to give them a leg up over better known names. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Grains are just as digestable as other starches, and according to my sources (small animal clinical nutrition 4th ed) carbohydrates from corn are 98% digestable and the protein is 87% digestable. .



http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/?p=ccmyth1_2

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths

Please note that the digestablity information listed for the grains on the dogfoodproject page is MUCH lower than what is provided in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th Ed... and I do not know where this website got their digestability studies.


If you research, you will find that vets have about 3 hours of nurtition training during all their time at vet school (if any) and get the rest from seminars set up by the dog food companies. Literally, a representative from science diet will come to a vets office and teach them how great the product is. Also, many vet scholarships are financed by pet food companies. This is a blatent conflict of interest and it still baffles me how it is so accepted in the field.
Look at who sponsors the first link that you posted (the second one didn't open). Hill pet nurtition, AKA the makers of science diet. It makes sense for them to convince people how great corn is because they love to use it as cheap filler in their dog food

If you look at dogs, they are carnivores. Their digestive systems are specialized for meat. They have short digestive systems made to blast meat and digest it quickly. They do not produce amylase in their saliva which is an enzyme that omnivores like humans produce to start digestion when they chew. They are specialized for meat, meat, and more meat.

Grains do not digest quickly at all and have been linked to all kinds of health issues with dogs. So, I would say corn is better to give your dog. Either way, your dog should get most of its calories from meat.

I am not much of a conspiracy person at all but when I started looking into the issue, it was so obvious what is happening. One of the most astounding things are the scientific papers (or those posing as scientific papers) that do not follow the basics of a scientific study like having a large enough sample size, stuff that a first year biology student could do.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am

Red Brindle wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:
Red Brindle wrote:Dogs digestive systems are not suited for grains such as rice so you should avoid this and go with a grain free dog food.

Going grain free solves your dilemma as well. I have yet to find a grain free dog food that has poor quality ingredients in it so you won't have to bother worrying about corn meal vs corn...


And this is a bunch of bullpucky sold to you by the "premium" dog food companies to give them a leg up over better known names. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Grains are just as digestable as other starches, and according to my sources (small animal clinical nutrition 4th ed) carbohydrates from corn are 98% digestable and the protein is 87% digestable. .



http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/?p=ccmyth1_2

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths

Please note that the digestablity information listed for the grains on the dogfoodproject page is MUCH lower than what is provided in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th Ed... and I do not know where this website got their digestability studies.


If you research, you will find that vets have about 3 hours of nurtition training during all their time at vet school (if any) and get the rest from seminars set up by the dog food companies.


Um, she IS a vet. ;)

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Red Brindle
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Postby Red Brindle » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:35 am

Than I hope my comments don't hit too close to home...


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