Neutered at 7 weeks old?!

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msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:40 pm

Carla wrote:I wonder how many adopters you lose when they find out the 7-8 week old pup has already been neutered...


None actually. Most are happy it's been done and they don't have to mess w/heats or anything else that goes w/intact pets. Or pay for the costly surgery themselves.
Some are a little shocked to hear it's been done but do their research and see it's relatively safe.
I say relatively - of COURSE there's drawbacks.
But - I'd rather it grew a little taller than had a litter of puppies or sired a litter and had come from MY rescue.
If someone is that concerned they need to find a responsible breeder where there is that leeway to alter.

**BTW I am now dealing with a returned (shelter) adoption who got returned to a shelter where she came from complete with a litter of puppies.
This is a shelter who actually does alter but this dog went out on a contract to alter. There's now that many more dogs in the system...

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Postby NewOrleansSaint » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:52 pm

Deniselynn wrote:7 weeks old is way too young to be fixed. It is not giving a dog a chance to mature at all!



:frown: I feel the same way.

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Postby Kingsgurl » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:54 am

Many shelters were doing adoptions with a speuter voucher for getting the dog altered at a later age (for free, mind you) The compliance rate was less than 20%, so out of 10 dogs adopted, 8 of them went unaltered, many of those producing the next cycle of incoming dogs. Early spay/neuter is the price these dogs now must pay for the collective irresponsibility of people as a whole.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:36 am

Deniselynn wrote:
:goodpost: 7 weeks old is way too young to be fixed. It is not giving a dog a chance to mature at all!


Please also take into account the long-term consequences of waiting to speuter within the shelter environment.

In a shelter you have two choices:

A: Speuter at an early age (pediatric spay/neuter)

B: Keep the pet in a shelter environment during its impressionable weeks where it should be getting love, attention, socialized and being taught manners and potty trained, then speutering at adolescence... knowingly preventing that many more animals from being adopted during that 6 month period of time.

There is a shelter in our area (no-kill) that will not perform pediatric spay or neuter. Because of this, they are unable and often unwilling to accept puppies and kittens. On the rare occasions that they actually have room for these animals, they keep them until they are 6 months of age. As a result, it is not uncommon to see 2-3 year old pets that are being adopted for the FIRST TIME having spent the first years of their lives in the shelter environment.

When I worked at the shelter in Omaha where kittens were spayed at 2 pounds regardless of age, and puppies at 8 weeks or 2 pounds, whichever was sooner, the puppies and kittens were rarely in the adoption wing for more than a week. At our local shelter, young, impressionable, energetic animals are no more adoptable than the adults because they're held until 6 months of age, and therefore can stay in the shelter environment for years. This is FAR WORSE in my opinion... the thought of any animals spending years in a cage is absolutely abhorent to me...

Our clinic often accepts foster/orphan kittens because this shelter doesn't have space due to this policy, but this "No Kill" shelter will accept the kittens "for euthanasia due to lack of space" and owners are often reluctant to do this so they go looking for someone else.

This shelter also refused to adopt out two 8 week old kittens to one of our BEST clients even when they offered to pre-pay for the spay/neuter surgeries for the two kittens. Those two kittens are still in the shelter, and that client adopted a pair of orphans from us instead... and they never miss a vaccine appointment or decline any care whatsoever... and have not for 8 years. Even a phone call from the hospital owner (a well respected veterinarian in the community for 30 years) vouching for the quality of care of these owners gave would sway the shelter from adopting out these two kittens prior to 6 months of age. It was a sad situation for everyone...

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Postby buckaroo » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:48 am

For everyone against it, what is your solution in a shelter/rescue setting?

We KNOW vouchers/contracts don't work and holding puppies and kittens in a foster home or shelter environment is assanine. So what do YOU think should be done to ensure all animals adopted out are altered reliably?

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Postby Allie » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:25 am

buckaroo wrote:For everyone against it, what is your solution in a shelter/rescue setting?

We KNOW vouchers/contracts don't work and holding puppies and kittens in a foster home or shelter environment is assanine. So what do YOU think should be done to ensure all animals adopted out are altered reliably?


Good questions! I'm interested in the responses.

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Postby mydogroxy » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:00 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Deniselynn wrote:
:goodpost: 7 weeks old is way too young to be fixed. It is not giving a dog a chance to mature at all!


Please also take into account the long-term consequences of waiting to speuter within the shelter environment.

In a shelter you have two choices:

A: Speuter at an early age (pediatric spay/neuter)

B: Keep the pet in a shelter environment during its impressionable weeks where it should be getting love, attention, socialized and being taught manners and potty trained, then speutering at adolescence... knowingly preventing that many more animals from being adopted during that 6 month period of time.

There is a shelter in our area (no-kill) that will not perform pediatric spay or neuter. Because of this, they are unable and often unwilling to accept puppies and kittens. On the rare occasions that they actually have room for these animals, they keep them until they are 6 months of age. As a result, it is not uncommon to see 2-3 year old pets that are being adopted for the FIRST TIME having spent the first years of their lives in the shelter environment.

When I worked at the shelter in Omaha where kittens were spayed at 2 pounds regardless of age, and puppies at 8 weeks or 2 pounds, whichever was sooner, the puppies and kittens were rarely in the adoption wing for more than a week. At our local shelter, young, impressionable, energetic animals are no more adoptable than the adults because they're held until 6 months of age, and therefore can stay in the shelter environment for years. This is FAR WORSE in my opinion... the thought of any animals spending years in a cage is absolutely abhorent to me...

Our clinic often accepts foster/orphan kittens because this shelter doesn't have space due to this policy, but this "No Kill" shelter will accept the kittens "for euthanasia due to lack of space" and owners are often reluctant to do this so they go looking for someone else.

This shelter also refused to adopt out two 8 week old kittens to one of our BEST clients even when they offered to pre-pay for the spay/neuter surgeries for the two kittens. Those two kittens are still in the shelter, and that client adopted a pair of orphans from us instead... and they never miss a vaccine appointment or decline any care whatsoever... and have not for 8 years. Even a phone call from the hospital owner (a well respected veterinarian in the community for 30 years) vouching for the quality of care of these owners gave would sway the shelter from adopting out these two kittens prior to 6 months of age. It was a sad situation for everyone...


:goodpost:

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Postby bullydogla » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:13 am

buckaroo wrote:For everyone against it, what is your solution in a shelter/rescue setting?

We KNOW vouchers/contracts don't work and holding puppies and kittens in a foster home or shelter environment is assanine. So what do YOU think should be done to ensure all animals adopted out are altered reliably?


Honestly I don't have a solution. I have recently, last Saturday, taken in a 1 year old intact male who was living in a back yard and attacked by his yard mate. His neuter is scheduled for tomorrow. If he was not 1 year I would wait until he was then get him snipped. Thats me. I have control over this single dog. If I had multiples, then I honestly don't know.

By the way anyone interested in a 1 year old black male????

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Postby heartbullies » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:17 am

Kingsgurl wrote:Many shelters were doing adoptions with a speuter voucher for getting the dog altered at a later age (for free, mind you) The compliance rate was less than 20%, so out of 10 dogs adopted, 8 of them went unaltered, many of those producing the next cycle of incoming dogs. Early spay/neuter is the price these dogs now must pay for the collective irresponsibility of people as a whole.


Yep, we just got a dog returned to us in the night deposit. She was adopted two years ago on a S/N waiver, but was microchipped. We got her back in the night deposit box, along with her second litter of pit bull mix puppies (the owner left a note saying he had found "good homes" for the first litter but couldn't handle the second litter, plus he was moving!) and she was also adopted out as a very young puppy, and now that she's an adult, she's in her kennel with her puppies with blown pupils, aggressing at everyone that comes by and constantly alarm barking and won't eat.

Plus we are able to effectively discourage sketchy adopters for some dogs (especially those "rare" blue nose pit bulls! lol) by telling people that they will be S/N prior to pick-up and explaining, "Yes, that means they can't make puppies."

So yeah. While some people are responsible, the vast majority are not. Municipal shelters often don't do a ton of screening/coaching on the adopters as well. I agree that I would never personally neuter a dog that young, but I do understand why this happens.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:39 am

heartbullies wrote:
So yeah. While some people are responsible, the vast majority are not. Municipal shelters often don't do a ton of screening/coaching on the adopters as well. I agree that I would never personally neuter a dog that young, but I do understand why this happens.


Like others said, picture yourself with 8 8-week old puppies.
And hanging on to those puppies until they are AT LEAST 4mos. of age - yay - and their adoptability goes down as people want them when they are babies - and I THINK people should start bonding with them asap, it is good for them and good for the puppy!
So what's the solution?
We have not had issues to speak of since we began pediatric s/n about 2yrs. ago.
Some of those pups are now, of course, 2, and doing fantastic in their new homes. No health issues to speak of.
While pediatric sn/ may not be "ideal", it does work and it is my insurance, my peace of mind, that I did my job well.

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Postby NewOrleansSaint » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:59 am

msvette2u wrote:
heartbullies wrote:We have not had issues to speak of since we began pediatric s/n about 2yrs. ago. Some of those pups are now, of course, 2, and doing fantastic in their new homes. No health issues to speak of.


This was what I was wondering about. If there were any negative effects on the dogs because of an early spay/neuter. It seems like there really aren't any from the responses. That's good.

I hate to hear those stories about dogs being returned with a little of pups. Human ignorance knows no limits! :frown:

I do see how these early spay/neuter procedure helps in the grand scheme of things.

. . . if only people weren't so careless . . .

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:02 am

I know...if it helps, no we have not seen any ill effects of early neuter.
Yes it'd be nice to let everyone take their pup intact and trust they would alter, but I learned long ago it won't be done, and if it is ever, not in time.
So we have to just get everyone fixed and then people don't have to worry about it again.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:23 am

When I worked in Omaha, we did approximately 15 spay/neuters a DAY, the majority of them pediatric, 6 days a week. I was there for 3 weeks over the christmas holiday, so things were slow. Normal capacity was 30 pediatric surgeries a day.

Long-term complications are just now coming to light, but they do not affect the animals until long after they have been adopted (minimally higher risks for cruciate disease and some cancers) and in my opinion these risks are negligable in comparison to the risk of keeping puppies in cages until 6 months of age, or worse yet, allowing 80% of them to go unaltered due to poor compliance after adoption.

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Postby Carla » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:29 pm

buckaroo wrote:For everyone against it, what is your solution in a shelter/rescue setting?

We KNOW vouchers/contracts don't work and holding puppies and kittens in a foster home or shelter environment is assanine. So what do YOU think should be done to ensure all animals adopted out are altered reliably?


Because "pets" have to fit into a more and more artificial environment that is not all that friendly to "dogness", and because basically irresponsible people with NO dog/animal sense have every right to own whatever breed they want and to keep it in whatever confinement they see fit and keep as many as they want to -- pediatric spay and neuter will be a necessity.

We will just continue to make our DOGS fit into whatever environment we want them to, with little concern for what we are doing to them.

Carla

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Postby Tula » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:04 pm

Just wanted to chime in from the medical/surgery perspective; its a LOT less stressful for a dog to be spayed/neutered at 8 weeks than it is for a dog thats already reached sexual maturity. In the sense of development of tissue, size of organs, vascular supply, nervous supply ETC.

They tend to have super quick and complication free recoveries.

I have heard about the chance for certain bone cancers being slightly higher, but like MissKiwi said the risk is negligible in comparison to all the other factors we take into account.

I know that its still controversial, but I've attended more than one lecture at school that advocates we spay/neuter at as young an age possible.


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