Which is better? TOTW or Diamond Naturals

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molucass
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Which is better? TOTW or Diamond Naturals

Postby molucass » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:46 pm

My dogs are currently on Diamond Naturals.. They are both doing well on it, but I've also heard good things about the TOTW foods.. Recently at Tractor Supply, where I buy the DN, they have started selling the TOTW...

Which of the two is better, or are they about the same? I compared ingredients, but I would like to get some input.

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elrojo
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Postby elrojo » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:55 pm

TOTW, hands down. Diamond Naturals use high quality grains, but TOTW is grain-free. You can compare the two here: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

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elrojo
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Postby elrojo » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:58 pm

Well, for some reason I can't always edit on this site...

anyway, several lines of Diamond Naturals had insufficient meat content -I couldn't find one that rated above 3 Star. TOTW formulas get 5 stars (and Bison and Fowl get 6) all around. The site used to only give 5 stars, they upped it to six with some of the new grain-free highest quality foods.

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luvmybulls
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Postby luvmybulls » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:23 pm

If you feed TOTW, I'd stay away from any formula with fish in it. It's preserved with ethoxyquin. I wanted to feed it myself but I emailed them first.

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Postby jlphilli » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:39 pm

luvmybulls wrote:If you feed TOTW, I'd stay away from any formula with fish in it. It's preserved with ethoxyquin. I wanted to feed it myself but I emailed them first.


That's weird. Other ppl have emailed them as well and they said it isn't.

Either way, mine is doing very well on the TOTW fish formula...better than any food I've fed her.

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elrojo
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Postby elrojo » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:17 pm

luvmybulls wrote:If you feed TOTW, I'd stay away from any formula with fish in it. It's preserved with ethoxyquin. I wanted to feed it myself but I emailed them first.


I own a pet shop and have contacted Diamond about this. My wholesaler rep said that it HAD to be on the label, and I'm 99% sure it's not. I'll get a call from the TOTW rep Monday or Tuesday and get this cleared up.

FWIW, there is only one formula with fish, Pacific Stream. I'm home now and can't check a bag of that for it, but will post tomorrow if it is on the label. Even fish food is labeled with ethoxyquin, I'm thinking surely dog food would have to list it...

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Postby Deniselynn » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:39 pm

TOTW!

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luvmybulls
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Postby luvmybulls » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:38 am

elrojo wrote:I own a pet shop and have contacted Diamond about this. My wholesaler rep said that it HAD to be on the label, and I'm 99% sure it's not. I'll get a call from the TOTW rep Monday or Tuesday and get this cleared up.

FWIW, there is only one formula with fish, Pacific Stream. I'm home now and can't check a bag of that for it, but will post tomorrow if it is on the label. Even fish food is labeled with ethoxyquin, I'm thinking surely dog food would have to list it...


The following is the response I got from Diamond about TOTW.

The preservation systems used by our vendors are considered proprietary information. However, we know that the heat from our pet food process destroys antioxidants that are used in the ingredients that we purchase. After the heat process (extrusion and drying), we apply natural tocopherols (Vitamins A & E) in order to carry the shelf life of the food. The cooking process at our facilities is at or above 240 degrees. If there were any ethoxyquin in the ingredients it would be eliminated due to its lack of heat stability. Diamond does not preserve any of its products with ethoxyquin, only with mixed tocopherols.





Some general comments about ethoxyquin:



Although we do not use it, when it is used as an anti-oxidant (to prevent rancidity), as soon as it is added, it begins to oxidize ("to be used up"). Heat and moisture greatly expedite the oxidation. Pet food manufacturing processes typically utilize heat and moisture. The use of ethoxyquin is approved as an anti-oxidant in pet foods and the levels are specified. This information is available on the FDA site.



Since ethoxyquin is an anti-oxidant, its use in reference to preventing cancer has been published and can be found on PubMed searches.





Quality Control Manager

Diamond Pet Foods


That tells me that they use non-human grade fish and rely on their cooking process to remove the ethoxyquin. I'l pass.

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Postby Nanci » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:09 am

But they say "Although we do not use it..." Doesn't that mean they don't use it?

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L Boogie
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Postby L Boogie » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:01 am

I have fed both to my dogs and they do far better on TOTW.

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jlphilli
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Postby jlphilli » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:47 am

luvmybulls wrote:
elrojo wrote:I own a pet shop and have contacted Diamond about this. My wholesaler rep said that it HAD to be on the label, and I'm 99% sure it's not. I'll get a call from the TOTW rep Monday or Tuesday and get this cleared up.

FWIW, there is only one formula with fish, Pacific Stream. I'm home now and can't check a bag of that for it, but will post tomorrow if it is on the label. Even fish food is labeled with ethoxyquin, I'm thinking surely dog food would have to list it...


The following is the response I got from Diamond about TOTW.

The preservation systems used by our vendors are considered proprietary information. However, we know that the heat from our pet food process destroys antioxidants that are used in the ingredients that we purchase. After the heat process (extrusion and drying), we apply natural tocopherols (Vitamins A & E) in order to carry the shelf life of the food. The cooking process at our facilities is at or above 240 degrees. If there were any ethoxyquin in the ingredients it would be eliminated due to its lack of heat stability. Diamond does not preserve any of its products with ethoxyquin, only with mixed tocopherols.





Some general comments about ethoxyquin:



Although we do not use it, when it is used as an anti-oxidant (to prevent rancidity), as soon as it is added, it begins to oxidize ("to be used up"). Heat and moisture greatly expedite the oxidation. Pet food manufacturing processes typically utilize heat and moisture. The use of ethoxyquin is approved as an anti-oxidant in pet foods and the levels are specified. This information is available on the FDA site.



Since ethoxyquin is an anti-oxidant, its use in reference to preventing cancer has been published and can be found on PubMed searches.





Quality Control Manager

Diamond Pet Foods


That tells me that they use non-human grade fish and rely on their cooking process to remove the ethoxyquin. I'l pass.




Soooo, like I said....they don't use it...

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luvmybulls
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Postby luvmybulls » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:58 am

jlphilli wrote:
Soooo, like I said....they don't use it...


No you're right, they don't use it. But they also can't tell us that it's not in the fish product from their source. That's a guarantee that many companies can and do offer. I believe that's the difference between a human grade meat ingredient and a non human grade ingredient.

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barbponys
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Postby barbponys » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:17 pm

A lot of fish is stabilized after processing at sea with ethoxyquin. Diamond may not add when they add the fish products but they can't say whether it was used on board the factory ship... The main reason I won't feed a fish based food.

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Postby adamwilkes14 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:26 pm

We feed Daisy Diamond Nautrals Lamb and Rice and she does good. She has never been fed any different. I dont even know where I would find any TOTW though in my town.

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Postby mtlu » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:26 pm

I saw the same info that barbponys explained while I was researching the ethoxyquin issue recently because my dog does best on fish-based foods. If I remember correctly, Orijen (6 Fish formula) and Wellness Core (Ocean formula) are two companies that guarantee that neither they or the suppliers they source their fish from use ethoxyquin.

In my area, the Orijen and Wellness Core large sized bags are nearly double the price of TOTW. My dog has done really really well on the TOTW Pacific Stream formula. Their "Wetlands" formula does contain some fish meal too BTW, but it's lower on the list than the other meat/protein sources.


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