Raw Vegan Dog Food

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
PigDog
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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:55 pm

Rinalia wrote:
Kirstan wrote:Um, I do resent the vegan=moron little comment above. I mean, I could be a moron, but it wouldn't be b/c of my diet.

~k.


Ditto. I'm vegan but my dogs are raw meat enthusiasts.


Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.

Humans are omnivores. A human eating no animal products is like feeding a dog/cat a vegetarian diet.

Mario

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gallytrot
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Postby gallytrot » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:57 pm

PigDog wrote:
Rinalia wrote:
Kirstan wrote:Um, I do resent the vegan=moron little comment above. I mean, I could be a moron, but it wouldn't be b/c of my diet.

~k.


Ditto. I'm vegan but my dogs are raw meat enthusiasts.


Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.

Humans are omnivores. A human eating no animal products is like feeding a dog/cat a vegetarian diet.

Mario


You haven't met many vegans, have you?

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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:44 pm

gallytrot wrote:
You haven't met many vegans, have you?


Only a few hundred in the last 20 years.

Mario

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barbponys
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Postby barbponys » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:42 pm

Our systems are more adept at getting protein from other sources other than meat. Unlike dogs and cats that don't have the ability to break down plant fibers, either by chewing or digesting, as effectively as we do. I know a lot of people who are vegie/vegan who have been for 30 years or more that certainly don't look like heroine addicts. That's a pretty closed minded thing to say.

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Postby Rinalia » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:59 pm

PigDog wrote:
Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.

Humans are omnivores. A human eating no animal products is like feeding a dog/cat a vegetarian diet.

Mario


Hey Mario,

I'm not sure how open-minded you are, really. I'm familiar with nutrition and the nutritional needs of human beings. I'm also familiar with study after study touting reducing meat, dairy and eggs because of their negative health effects. I am not familiar with any body of peer-reviewed studies that claim a well-balanced vegan diet is unhealthy.

A dog is an opportunistic carnivore, not an omnivore. A cat is an obligate carnivore, not an omnivore. An omnivore is pretty flexible. Pigs, for example, have very similar digestive systems to humans - they are omnivores, yet thrive on a plant-based diet. Chickens are omnivorous and also thrive on a plant-based diet (they also thrive on diets that include insects and other animal-based protein as well as eggs).

Very few people would argue that pigs look like heroin addicts, much like very few people would argue, after meeting me, that *I* look like a heroin addict. Your arguments are not founded in science or logic but are rather inflammatory and hyperbolic.

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Postby Kirstan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:02 pm

Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.

Humans are omnivores. A human eating no animal products is like feeding a dog/cat a vegetarian diet.

Mario


At utterly ridiculous comment. Because someone is or is not vegan doesn't have anything to do with their research on nutrition. I'm not surprised by your sweeping generalization as the first comment was much the same. It's not really what the topic is addressing but there are MANY people who can't get their nutritional needs met and they aren't vegan. It's just so ridiculous to make a statement on MOST anything - especially if you've not done the research and I'm going to guess you've not done it otherwise you wouldn't have said 'most'.

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Postby barbponys » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:08 pm

Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.


Last I looked in the mirror I was anything but emmaciated! I expect the dr. to be giving me a hard time at how not emmaciated I am!

Saying I know nothing about nutrition is pretty dim witted too...

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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:19 pm

Rinalia wrote:
Hey Mario,

I'm not sure how open-minded you are, really. I'm familiar with nutrition and the nutritional needs of human beings. I'm also familiar with study after study touting reducing meat, dairy and eggs because of their negative health effects.


I am also familiar with the same field having studied nutrition as part of my formal education. The negative effects on health are not caused by meat, eggs and milk, per se. But rather by the quantities consumed and the preparation involved (fresh vs. out of a box, organically raised vs. factory farms, etc).

Rinalia wrote:I am not familiar with any body of peer-reviewed studies that claim a well-balanced vegan diet is unhealthy.


Neither am I, BUT I have met very few vegans who consumed a well-balanced diet. Wel-balanced is the key phrase. That is where my former comment stems from. Most do it for ideological reasons and seem to think that salad is enough to live on, which it is not. Much like eating only meat is not sufficient (unless you hppen to be of predominantly Inuit/Inupiaq/Yu'Pik ancestry).



Rinalia wrote: Your arguments are not founded in science or logic but are rather inflammatory and hyperbolic.


Again, formal education and 20 years of experience. If you don't fit the mold that I cast, good for you. I'm glad that people actually do take the time to figure it out.

Mario

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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:20 pm

barbponys wrote:
Most vegans don't take the time to learn the bodies nutritional needs and end up looking like heroin addicts. Much like dogs/cats who are fed a vegetarian diet.


Last I looked in the mirror I was anything but emmaciated! I expect the dr. to be giving me a hard time at how not emmaciated I am!

Saying I know nothing about nutrition is pretty dim witted too...


First word of what you quoted: Most. Not all, most.

Mario

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Postby Stormi » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:27 pm

I concur with Kirsten.

PigDog wrote:
Neither am I, BUT I have met very few vegans who consumed a well-balanced diet.


And I have met very few people IN GENERAL who consume a well-balanced diet.

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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:29 pm

Stormi wrote:I concur with Kirsten.

PigDog wrote:
Neither am I, BUT I have met very few vegans who consumed a well-balanced diet.


And I have met very few people IN GENERAL who consume a well-balanced diet.


Agreed. But most don't make it a point to consume that diet. Vegans make a concious decision.

Mario

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Rinalia
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Postby Rinalia » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:33 pm

Neither am I, BUT I have met very few vegans who consumed a well-balanced diet. Wel-balanced is the key phrase. That is where my former comment stems from. Most do it for ideological reasons and seem to think that salad is enough to live on, which it is not. Much like eating only meat is not sufficient (unless you hppen to be of predominantly Inuit/Inupiaq/Yu'Pik ancestry).


How many people do you know consume a well-balanced diet, period? You seem to believe that vegans are the only ones capable of screwing up their diet when, in reality, they're the least likely to do so (as evidenced by scientific data and statistical data on obesity, heart disease and some cancers). You are not seeing a large increase in heart-related deaths in the vegan community. You see lower rates of many cancers as well in vegetarians and vegans. So who are the ones affected by obesity, heart disease, certain forms of cancer - it isn't vegans. I'm certainly not arguing that health problems are magically eliminated on a vegan diet. I am proposing that your spin on the issue diverts attention from the fact that the most common health problems are not attributed to kale and apples.

You would do better, in my opinion, to argue that a well-balanced diet is that - well-balanced, no matter whether the dieter consumes meat or chooses to eat plant-based foods.

As to the number game, I meet thousands of vegans and vegetarians every year, it's part of my job. I meet thousands of omnis every year, also part of my job. I don't base my opposition to your use of "vegans look like heroin addicts" on the number of vegans I've met nor do I base my arguments on whether a vegan diet can be healthy on the number of unhealthy omnis I've met. While I appreciate that anecdata, pulled together, can be a lot more provocative than a few stories, I don't think you or I can draw too many logical conclusions on any diet just from the number of people met on that diet.

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Postby Kirstan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:57 pm

Agreed. But most don't make it a point to consume that diet. Vegans make a concious decision.


So, 'others' (outside the vegetarian group) who don't have an adequate diet don't have that ability to make a conscious decision about their diet? That's how your comment reads. Basically, what you're saying is that the 'meat eaters' who have poor nutrition are too stupid to research what they eat and all of us who are vegan/vegetarian, consciously decide to have poor nutrition, is that it?

You've made ridiculous statements about a lifestyle you do not practice and have intimated that only people like, well I'm guessing you, are capable of well thought out nutrition and only people, again just guesssing you're thinking of yourself, actually putting some thought into a lifestyle, yes?

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Postby PigDog » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:58 pm

Rinalia wrote:
How many people do you know consume a well-balanced diet, period?


See my comment to Stormi above.


Rinalia wrote:You seem to believe that vegans are the only ones capable of screwing up their diet when,


No. That's not what I said. I said that most vegans I have known consciously choose a specific diet without researching the nutritional needs of their body and how they can meet them.



Rinalia wrote:in reality, they're the least likely to do so (as evidenced by scientific data and statistical data on obesity, heart disease and some cancers). You are not seeing a large increase in heart-related deaths in the vegan community. You see lower rates of many cancers as well in vegetarians and vegans. So who are the ones affected by obesity, heart disease, certain forms of cancer - it isn't vegans.


Again, all issues directly related to how the diet is raised, prepeared, etc as well as the quantities consumed.

Rinalia wrote:
I'm certainly not arguing that health problems are magically eliminated on a vegan diet. I am proposing that your spin on the issue diverts attention from the fact that the most common health problems are not attributed to kale and apples.


Yes. But my argument is that man cannot live on kale and apples alone... :)


Rinalia wrote:You would do better, in my opinion, to argue that a well-balanced diet is that - well-balanced, no matter whether the dieter consumes meat or chooses to eat plant-based foods.


I thought that was my main point along?



Rinalia wrote: I don't think you or I can draw too many logical conclusions on any diet just from the number of people met on that diet.


I respectfully disagree, given a good sized pool of subjects at least.

Anyhow, I think we've fully hijacked this thread. perhaps we should just let this one go?:peace:

Mario

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Postby luckystar02 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:33 pm

I'm vegan and just have to chime in here.....Those who take time to make sure they are getting adequate protein and other supplements humans receive from meat protein sources such as Iron and B-12 aren't morons. Different people are vegans for different reasons being the health issues they see with meat and dairy or the way our supermarket meat and dairy is actually brought to our table (which the majority of Americans refuse to accept.) You would never in a million years look at me and think I was a skinny vegan or that I do heroin. So lumping us into a group isn't fair.

Bottom line is.....some people choose to eat meat and some people don't. Doesn't make people who don't morons. It will always be a never ending right and wrong battle with this choice. Regardless it's a choice.


As far as the dog thing...because in nature a dog could take down another animal if needed I don't see how feeding a vegan diet could be healthy unless the dog does have an allergy which allows it to not properly digest meat. I can't see how that much salt or garlic can be healthy for a dog either. It just seems a little fishy to me. I suppose if it worked for that dog in the story it worked but I wouldn't do it for any of my dogs just because I don't eat meat.

Anyway...I'm always stickin my 2 cents in..haha. 8)


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