Advice Please!!

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Torin
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Torin » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:52 pm

I hope this post doesn't come off the wrong way but doing tails in a german shorthair is as important as the dew claws. Reason being they are hunters and offten as adults will break their tails when hunting causing sivere pain and the tail then becomes amputated. There are many people against tail docking but honestly the pups do not remember it happening. Our GSP's all have their tails done and I would have it no other way. Their tails are not sensative or anything. And I would hate to think of what could have happened to their tiles all these times hunting. Even the English Pointer people sometimes take of a bit of the end of a tail of pups for this exact reason as well. Tails are very important to doc in this breed.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby starrlamia » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:20 pm

Torin wrote:Also it c ould be that she is too far along to do x-ray. There is a certian time frame that she has to be in for the x-ray where the pups are formed enough to show up but after that time frame an x-ray can hurt the pups. Good luck!


Ugh this I dont get, they proved like 60-70 years ago that xraying a pregnant human could cause fetal defects, would that not be the same for dogs?

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Mya&theSiebenDackels » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:44 pm

I just hope he finds them good homes where they will not end up in the hunting trade yards at the flea markets.

The flea market in Ripley, MS is so sad and they have a trade yard where they trade and sell hunting dogs. My Papaw(Grandpa) used to hunt raccoons(he never shot them just let his coonhounds tree them) and hunt rabbits with his beagles. He used to get a lot of his dogs there(because he felt sorry for them and they would stay with him for life) and that a lot of dogs, if they were not good hunters, just keep getting traded into one home after another after another. And lots of people did not take good care of their animals and it is just a very sad place. I mean, not all hunters are bad and a lot of them take wonderful care of their dogs(like my Papaw) but, their are some who do not. I just hope none of the puppies end up in homes like that.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Mooresmajestic » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:50 am

starrlamia wrote:
Torin wrote:Also it c ould be that she is too far along to do x-ray. There is a certian time frame that she has to be in for the x-ray where the pups are formed enough to show up but after that time frame an x-ray can hurt the pups. Good luck!


Ugh this I dont get, they proved like 60-70 years ago that xraying a pregnant human could cause fetal defects, would that not be the same for dogs?


Not really, you only x-ray when the mom is past 45 days. They show up best after 60. By that 60 days the pups are pretty much fully developed anyway. And you can get a closer count than on an ultrasound which only finds heartbeats. I have a friend that has bred for years and always does her x-rays at 60 days. Never had one problem. You can also get a timeline for delivery in an x-ray done at this time, because you can see where the pups are positioned.
It's more the stress of taking the x-ray than the x-ray itself. If the mom-to-be isn't used to being handled by other people, and turned this way and that she can go into labor early. That is why at the clinic I work at we only do lateral(dog on side) x-rays and not VD(dog on back) when doing pregnancy checks. It is easier on the dog.

I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me, but so far that is really the best way to get a puppy count. It's hard to count heartbeats and get a puppy count on a dog that has 10+ puppies in an ultrasound. Unfortunatly animal medicine hasn't come that far along, and there really isn't a better way to do it.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Gypsy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:44 pm

Oh dear lord, if I survive this, I think Im going to live a long time.

Nothing yet, but all day yesterday dark brown mucous all over the floor, licking of the vaginal area constantly, but nope nothing yet. :huh?:

And thank you Torin for those initials cause I really dont know anything about that. I will definitely be looking at the papers when Im there. And I didnt know they couldnt or wouldnt x-ray after certain time frames, maybe that was the reason, so we are still (well "they") clueless about how many pups.

Only yesterday, I said so did you buy the ribbons? She's like what? For what? OMG, I just want to scream all the time w/these people.
How the hell are you gonna tell one pup from another? Count the freaking dots? Im excited and sad at the same time, and I really cant wait for it to happen already.

Oh and btw the pappa dog was sent to boot camp to become a better hunter. :sad:

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Torin
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Torin » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:59 pm

Gypsy wrote:Oh dear lord, if I survive this, I think Im going to live a long time.

Only yesterday, I said so did you buy the ribbons? She's like what? For what? OMG, I just want to scream all the time w/these people.
How the hell are you gonna tell one pup from another? Count the freaking dots? Im excited and sad at the same time, and I really cant wait for it to happen already.

Oh and btw the pappa dog was sent to boot camp to become a better hunter. :sad:


With this breed it is pretty easy to tell the pups apart as no two are exactly the same in markings. But I do agree it is easier when you put something on the pup like a ribbon to tell boys from girls.

Pappa dog being sent to boot camp is a GOOD THING! Honestly. It will make it easier for the pups to find homes and if he is a better hunter it is just a better thing for him and the breed. Hunt training is an awesome thing for a dog to go to that is suppose to be a hunter. Given that they sent him to a good trainer.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby starrlamia » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:13 pm

Mooresmajestic wrote:
starrlamia wrote:
Torin wrote:Also it c ould be that she is too far along to do x-ray. There is a certian time frame that she has to be in for the x-ray where the pups are formed enough to show up but after that time frame an x-ray can hurt the pups. Good luck!


Ugh this I dont get, they proved like 60-70 years ago that xraying a pregnant human could cause fetal defects, would that not be the same for dogs?


Not really, you only x-ray when the mom is past 45 days. They show up best after 60. By that 60 days the pups are pretty much fully developed anyway. And you can get a closer count than on an ultrasound which only finds heartbeats. I have a friend that has bred for years and always does her x-rays at 60 days. Never had one problem. You can also get a timeline for delivery in an x-ray done at this time, because you can see where the pups are positioned.
It's more the stress of taking the x-ray than the x-ray itself. If the mom-to-be isn't used to being handled by other people, and turned this way and that she can go into labor early. That is why at the clinic I work at we only do lateral(dog on side) x-rays and not VD(dog on back) when doing pregnancy checks. It is easier on the dog.

I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me, but so far that is really the best way to get a puppy count. It's hard to count heartbeats and get a puppy count on a dog that has 10+ puppies in an ultrasound. Unfortunatly animal medicine hasn't come that far along, and there really isn't a better way to do it.


Thanks for the reply! That is very interesting :) Im a totall pregnancy/labour nerd :P

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby starrlamia » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:16 pm

Gypsy wrote:Oh dear lord, if I survive this, I think Im going to live a long time.

Nothing yet, but all day yesterday dark brown mucous all over the floor, licking of the vaginal area constantly, but nope nothing yet. :huh?:

And thank you Torin for those initials cause I really dont know anything about that. I will definitely be looking at the papers when Im there. And I didnt know they couldnt or wouldnt x-ray after certain time frames, maybe that was the reason, so we are still (well "they") clueless about how many pups.

Only yesterday, I said so did you buy the ribbons? She's like what? For what? OMG, I just want to scream all the time w/these people.
How the hell are you gonna tell one pup from another? Count the freaking dots? Im excited and sad at the same time, and I really cant wait for it to happen already.

Oh and btw the pappa dog was sent to boot camp to become a better hunter. :sad:


Dark brown mucus is not a good thing, It should be clear or red tinged (stained with blood, its called bloody show), I would suggest to them to call their vet to be on the safe side.

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Shoshana
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Shoshana » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:22 pm

Sounds to me like they need to call the vet- that doesn't sound right at all...

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Gypsy
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Gypsy » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:30 pm

starrlamia wrote:
Gypsy wrote:Oh dear lord, if I survive this, I think Im going to live a long time.

Nothing yet, but all day yesterday dark brown mucous all over the floor, licking of the vaginal area constantly, but nope nothing yet. :huh?:

And thank you Torin for those initials cause I really dont know anything about that. I will definitely be looking at the papers when Im there. And I didnt know they couldnt or wouldnt x-ray after certain time frames, maybe that was the reason, so we are still (well "they") clueless about how many pups.

Only yesterday, I said so did you buy the ribbons? She's like what? For what? OMG, I just want to scream all the time w/these people.
How the hell are you gonna tell one pup from another? Count the freaking dots? Im excited and sad at the same time, and I really cant wait for it to happen already.

Oh and btw the pappa dog was sent to boot camp to become a better hunter. :sad:


Dark brown mucus is not a good thing, It should be clear or red tinged (stained with blood, its called bloody show), I would suggest to them to call their vet to be on the safe side.
I didnt see it myself thats how she described it to me and I immediately thought, Ive never heard of it described that way. Maybe to them it looked brown but was just bloody, so here it is 7/23 and I just say the woman, she says Nothing yet and shakes her head to me like, wtf? I shrugged to her like, you must of been way off on the date, huh? I wanted to suggest they go to the vet yesterday, I think Im gonna text her now.

Torin, even if they are very different, wouldnt that be alot to try to remember? She also has a human child, 8 yo with a health issue, so she has alot on her plate. And now watching to make sure 8-10? pups eat regularly, are pooping right, etc... it is alot. And I agree about him becoming a better Hunter, but I made a sad face because "He was supposed to already be a "TOP" dog" when he bought him from this lousy byb breeder. So far he's into this dog 3000.00 and hasn't hunted nothing, that's without food, vets, etc. I hope everything turns out for the best, I truly do, as I feel very involved in this dogs life for some reason. I just want her to be okay, and the puppies okay, healthy and going to good homes for the rest of their lives. UHHGGG its so fustrating waiting. Im gonna suggest a vet visit now.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby starrlamia » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:19 pm

Gypsy wrote:
starrlamia wrote:
Gypsy wrote:Oh dear lord, if I survive this, I think Im going to live a long time.

Nothing yet, but all day yesterday dark brown mucous all over the floor, licking of the vaginal area constantly, but nope nothing yet. :huh?:

And thank you Torin for those initials cause I really dont know anything about that. I will definitely be looking at the papers when Im there. And I didnt know they couldnt or wouldnt x-ray after certain time frames, maybe that was the reason, so we are still (well "they") clueless about how many pups.

Only yesterday, I said so did you buy the ribbons? She's like what? For what? OMG, I just want to scream all the time w/these people.
How the hell are you gonna tell one pup from another? Count the freaking dots? Im excited and sad at the same time, and I really cant wait for it to happen already.

Oh and btw the pappa dog was sent to boot camp to become a better hunter. :sad:


Dark brown mucus is not a good thing, It should be clear or red tinged (stained with blood, its called bloody show), I would suggest to them to call their vet to be on the safe side.
I didnt see it myself thats how she described it to me and I immediately thought, Ive never heard of it described that way. Maybe to them it looked brown but was just bloody, so here it is 7/23 and I just say the woman, she says Nothing yet and shakes her head to me like, wtf? I shrugged to her like, you must of been way off on the date, huh? I wanted to suggest they go to the vet yesterday, I think Im gonna text her now.

Torin, even if they are very different, wouldnt that be alot to try to remember? She also has a human child, 8 yo with a health issue, so she has alot on her plate. And now watching to make sure 8-10? pups eat regularly, are pooping right, etc... it is alot. And I agree about him becoming a better Hunter, but I made a sad face because "He was supposed to already be a "TOP" dog" when he bought him from this lousy byb breeder. So far he's into this dog 3000.00 and hasn't hunted nothing, that's without food, vets, etc. I hope everything turns out for the best, I truly do, as I feel very involved in this dogs life for some reason. I just want her to be okay, and the puppies okay, healthy and going to good homes for the rest of their lives. UHHGGG its so fustrating waiting. Im gonna suggest a vet visit now.


The blood should be fresh and red coloured not brown. Never hurts to consult the vet.

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Gypsy
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Gypsy » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:13 pm

:nana: they're going to the vet today :nana:

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby starrlamia » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:19 pm

Gypsy wrote::nana: they're going to the vet today :nana:

woot !
Hopefully everything is ok, and the pups are born safely.
As much as I hate the situation, I look forward to seeing cute little wiggly pups.

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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby MattNW » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:23 pm

The only experience I have with birthing puppies is from when I was 5-8 years old. We had a beagle who gave us several litters (all pups asked for before breeding). She didn't have papers but was from a tried and tested blood line that dates back to the days when people depended on their dogs to put food on the table.

From that scant experience however keep in mind that even if the owners counted correctly the mother can birth early or late so the exact due date isn't guaranteed. A funny anecdote happened when I was 8. I woke up one morning wet. I thought I had wet the bed so went and told my parents. When they checked the bed out they found Sugar (the beagle) with six puppies and another on the way out. She'd had her litter on my bed in the night.

Hunting deer is almost a conservation necessity nowadays. Almost all the predators who naturally keep the herd to decent levels have been destroyed. If left unchecked the deer population would explode and lead to starvation and disease. The only alternatives to hunting are relocating which costs a huge amount per animal and if the population is out of control anyway the best relocation efforts will hardly make a dent in the population and the stress and tranquilizing medication will cause a large number of deaths anyway. The other alternative is kill and leave for scavengers. This wastes a huge amount of meat and in my opinion is worse than hunting. At least most hunters eat what they kill. Third you can let starvation and disease take their toll but in that case the disease will end up costing a lot of healthy strong deer too along with the weak. You could also have disease spreading to domesticated animals.

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Gypsy
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Re: Advice Please!!

Postby Gypsy » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:26 am

Went to vet Friday, said she's dialated, let her be. (this was an emergency vet, not her regular vet). I get a text on Sunday saying her regular vet called saying, if she doesn't have puppies by Tuesday (7/28) to bring her in. I think they're gonna c-section her. :sad:


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