7 months old and on joint supplements

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LetaGrlShowU
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7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:28 am

I took Chaos into the vet this past saturday due to a limp on her front left paw. It didnt slow her down, or even seem to phase her, but it got predominantly worse when she woke up or got up from sitting. Mind you she is still running after Felony, and chasing toys. After a week I made my appt. My vet tells me she was unable to complete her orthopaedic exam because Chaos is "crazy". I even asked to allow me to be present bc she might calm down, but the vet says its her adrenaline. She never limped once in the office. She said from what she could tell it was in her shoulder, not her paw. The doctor, who was far more interested in how cute my 4 y.o daughter is, barely heard what the symptoms were, let alone pretty much EVERYTHING out of my mouth. I was raising my voice to talk over the two of them. So she says she wants to be "conservative" and put her on Rimadyl otherwise she'd need to do an x-ray ($120) + sedation $80 (because Chaos is crazy- what she says). So i'm thinking thats a chunk of change plus the visit so ok. Lets do the Rimadyl. Just before we leave I tell her that Chaos doesnt really walk with her feet pointing outwards, but she stand like that. Who knows what she heard but tells me "oh thats _____________- when theyre born the joints dont form correctly, we'll put her on a joint supplement too. If shes still limping in 10 days we'll do an xray" I think ok, i'll save most of my next paycheck and get ready for a large expense. Except when i go to the check out counter my bill is $215!!! FOR: Consult, Rimadyl (1month supply), Dusuquin (joint supplement- 2 week supply) and a Rimdyl injection - which the doctor never mentioned she gave her. So how is that conservative if we could have done the consult, sedation, and xray for $250 and get it rigth the 1st time?!?
My question is... what is the joint issue called? I've seen it mentioned on here as "westies" feet, but there is a term for it. She told me Chaos may need to be on medication for the rest of her life :::sigh::: I just want to do my own research. I'm prepared to do whatever is needed for Chaos to live a good, comfortable life. I just cant imagine that at 7 months she needs a joint supplement. :::sigh::: Thanks for any advice or kind words.

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LetaGrlShowU
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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:00 am

nobody knows the cindition when the dog stannds with their paws sideways???

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby heartbullies » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:20 am

The structural fault is just called easty-westy, you can see poor conformation in horses and dogs and other animals, too. It means that the animal is more at risk for excess wear and tear on the inefficiently-shaped joints including early arthritis/inflammation and possibly some tendon/ligament issues. I wouldn't do hard work with a horse or dog that had that type of conformation because a, they might not be physically capable and b, I wouldn't want them to break down early. It just means that whoever bred your girl likely didn't know WTF they were doing.

My dog has pretty straight stifles and his front assembly is all wrong, too. I love him dearly but no dogsport for him and certainly he's neutered. He's still my handsome guy, though.

I think that sounds about right for all that medication, $215. Perhaps by "conservative" they meant "least invasive," in that they are just putting some medication in the dog to see if that works BEFORE doing more extensive things like x-rays or treadmill motion studies or surgery or bloodwork or whatever.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby MikeZev » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:42 am

i would not let my vet suggest rimadyl as a long term solution

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LetaGrlShowU
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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:49 am

Hm. Thank you. :goodpost:
So does no sport include walking/jogging with my girl? She needs the excercise, mildly overweight. The doctor didnt actually check her for easty/westy just based it on what i said to her. Also she called it something with a C, like congelital something rather.
It would sadden me greatly if Chaos wasnt able to go on long walks due to a deformation that made it harder on her. That means she may deteriorate earlier in life. How awful. Yes, the people (idiots) who bred her let their amstaff and american bulldog mate. I spoke to her a few days ago for an update with Chaos and found out that theirs dog just had another litter. I barely know the woman and scolded her about overpopulation. Chaos is spayed. I just wanted to look up the doctorate term for the easty/westy issue. Thanks again for your post.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:50 am

MikeZev wrote:i would not let my vet suggest rimadyl as a long term solution


Please elaborate as I had reservations of possible long term side affects. Is this your concern? Or just because pain killers arent a resolution?

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby heartbullies » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:37 pm

I would probably talk to the vet about a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/hyaluronic acid/vitamin C/EFA regime of supplements, too. There might be other supplements you can give, too.

Generally if the dog is on Rimadyl for a while then you need to do frequent blood tests to check that no kidney or liver damage has occurred as a result of the medication. There are also different medications, like Deramaxx, which the dog might react to differently.

People say that swimming is a great exercise for dogs with arthritis or poor joint structure, but my dog is terrified of the water so that's not an option for us. I just have to find a balance between keeping his brain sane with adequate physical and mental exercise and not causing excess wear and tear.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:43 pm

heartbullies wrote:I would probably talk to the vet about a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/hyaluronic acid/vitamin C/EFA regime of supplements, too. There might be other supplements you can give, too.

Generally if the dog is on Rimadyl for a while then you need to do frequent blood tests to check that no kidney or liver damage has occurred as a result of the medication. There are also different medications, like Deramaxx, which the dog might react to differently.

People say that swimming is a great exercise for dogs with arthritis or poor joint structure, but my dog is terrified of the water so that's not an option for us. I just have to find a balance between keeping his brain sane with adequate physical and mental exercise and not causing excess wear and tear.


The Dusuquin is a glucosamine, hyaluronic acid/chondroitin supplement. I cant imagine fixing one problem to cause another. I am just praying its nothing, and maybe she hurt herself chasing her toys into walls (we have tile throughout). I havent attempted to see her swim yet, altrhough i tried to intrique her into the baby pool. We'll see.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby BigBadPibbul » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:46 pm

It's also quite possible that she torqued a joint the wrong way and has something going on similar to when we pull a muscle or over exert one. Last fall without thinking about the fact that we hadn't gone on a long walk in quite some time I took Stormy on an eight mile hiking trail. She was fine all the way around the loop through some pretty varied terain walking jogging and running, then when we got home and she had taken a snooze she acted like hell's fire had set up shop in her back end. If she got up or down too quick or went up and down the steps she would whine, if you poked at her muscles you could tell she was tender almost everywhere from the ribs on back. The vet checked her and thought she had just done too much hard walking after being a lazy girl all summer, we don't get to take stormy hiking often in the summer due to the heat. It took a good week and a half of being lazy and pampered before she stopped complaining about her sore muscles, made me feel like a butthole and wish there was some form of canine icy hot. :oops:

If you're not comfortable with or don't trust your vet try another one, even if it's farther away than the one you're using it is so worth it to be able to trust your dog's doctor and know that he's not trying to charge you for every single thing in the office that's not nailed down while giving your dog poor quality care. I've never seen a bill that high for a consult some drugs and a shot unless it's a night time emergency center. In fact when Stormy cut a vein in her ear and we went to the E vet they charged us less than 250$ for the visit, some fluids because of the bleeding being heavy, a tranquilizer, something the numb the ear, three stitches, two days worth of pain meds, and, a bandage.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby FBODGRL » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:34 pm

If it were me I would see a different vet. Obviously you don't feel the vet was communicating well with you and you aren't happy with the care she provided.

I also wouldn't let my vet tell me rimadyl would be a solution for my dogs lifetime.

As far as the bill. It doesn't seem to off. I'm guessing the month of rimadyl was around $40 and the injection was probably $25, Dosequin $40ish consult $40. I rarely make it out of my vets office for under $200. I generally plan on spending $200 a visit unless it is for vaccines only.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby merriterrier » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:28 pm

How is she doing?

LetaGrlShowU wrote:nobody knows the cindition when the dog stannds with their paws sideways???


What do you mean by sideways?

Does it look like this? (The dogs paw is twisted about 70- 80 degrees out)
Image

While he is easty-westy that is not his problem. There could be 2 different things affecting this dog. He could have Chronodysplasia (in short form a type of dwarfism - this dog is disproportionately long and short), or a nutritional deficiency in puppy hood sometimes related to fast growth. I have dealt with a lot of younger dogs like this through the shelter and if it is a nutritional deficiency they usually improve with proper supplementation and controlled exercise(a vet would be able to point you in the right direction). Because of some of the other issues the dog above has it is unclear after consulting with the orthopedic specialist which affliction Clyde has.

I would talk to another vet. There could any number of reasons she is limping. Also, your vet sounds mighty crappy, i would not be back.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:15 am

Well, her feet definitely dont do that. Its alot less severe if similar at all. Itd not that her ankle is extended and tursn outward, it is simply her paws that are at a 20-30 degree angle outward. Its not so bad, but i thought to mention it at the visit. Chaos has now been on joint supplement and Rimadyl for 8 days and is still limping. Havent seen much improvement. She is also showing signs of lathargy. She is naturally lazy, but she sleeps alot more than usual. I will take her back to my original vet and see what he says. I hate vet shopping but cant seem to find the right one.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby Maryellen » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:31 am

if the dog is still limping on the rimadyl there is something seriously wrong.. rimadyl is normally good for relieving pain , not great long term on organs, but after a few days the dog should not be limping.. i would go to another vet, have her sedated, and have xrays done..

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby LetaGrlShowU » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:42 pm

This is the closest picture i could find of her feet. Anyways, shouldnt the doctor have LOOKED at her feet before simply taking my word for it? She is the doctor after all.
Image
What do you all think? Its her front left foot thats bothering her.

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Re: 7 months old and on joint supplements

Postby Leslie H » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:09 pm

It's very hard to tell much from the photograph. She does not look significantly easty-westy in that photo, but she does look (maybe) a bit down in her left foot. What that means is the angle from the bottom of the front leg to the paw is not steep enough. The dog in merriterrier's picture is both easty-westy and severly down at the pasterns.
Nutrition and excersize can have some effect on this.
However, I am not a vet. I would call up the vet you saw, and seek clarification, or look for another vet. I'm not saying the vet did anything wrong. To x-ray, they would have likely needed to sedate your dog, why do that if you don't have to.


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