Neutered or Natural?

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rsemrau2
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Neutered or Natural?

Postby rsemrau2 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:15 am

Here is the big question! Have you neutered your dog? That time is coming around for Gotti and we are unsure of whether or not to neuter him. We have been pressure from the vet but we really believe she is just pressuring us because she really seems to charge a lot of money even for basic visit! I have researched it and I know there are benefits (longer life, healthier, etc) but I feel bad for him. He does not show aggression; he might be the calmest dog I could ever want. I need some input from other APBT owners because the vet really is not helping. Please give some advice!

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spammie
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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby spammie » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:18 am

Why would you feel bad for him? He'll never miss them.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:32 am

it's decesion that is based on you. I have a intact male, but he is also a show and working dog, so I have to keep him intact. The only way I will neuter him at this point, if one of his health test comes back less than desirable, and then it's off with his testicles. Is your dog papered, do you have any plans with him if he is papered?

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 am

If you could NEVER EVER EVER have sex... wouldn't you prefer to never know it would be an option??? He'll never miss them, and he's better off without them.

Vets push spay/neuter because its healthier for the pet, not because we make money... in fact, its usually the most discounted procedure offered. How much is a human vasectomy??? Same anesthesia, same surgery time... only slightly different procedure...

Canine Neuter FAQ:
http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Conten ... &C=0&A=574

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dragynflye
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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby dragynflye » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:24 am

we will soon be bringing home a male boxer puppy from an awesome breeder. we had to sign a contract saying we would get him neutered at the appropriate age, but even if we hadn't, he would still get snipped as soon as he was old enough. not only is it better for their health, but for their peace of mind. if a female in the neighborhood comes into heat, and your boy isn't snipped, it will make him miserable. an intact male around a female in season in a horrific pain in the ass! and dogs can smell a female in heat a looooong way off, so even if you don't have a female, and none of your immediate neighbors do, doesn't mean your boy won't be effected by a dog down the street. not to mention the snarkiness, the marking.... ick! sure, your boy may be the most mellow and laid back dog ever NOW, but he's not fully mature yet. who's to say when he reaches "that age" that won't all change? why not just snip him and head off any potential problems before they arise? if your boy doesn't have a REASON to be intact (such as showing), then it is better for all involved to have him neutered.

if you feel your vet charges too much, there are low cost neuter clinics, coupons, ect.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Mya&theSiebenDackels » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:49 am

Most of our dogs were spayed/neutered at a year old. We personally like to wait that long so, they can fully mature. Except, Mya(American Bully) and Chops(Pug) are not spayed. Chops is a year old and Mya is a year and half. We are going to get her spayed closer to 2 years old because we want to make sure she has fully matured. Chops is going to be spayed soon. That is just our personal opinion.

Tank(Great Pyrenees/lab mix) was neutered at 4 months old because he was showing signs of dog aggression and was very possessive of every thing. He thought he was tough stuff! After he was neutered, he calmed down and most of his bad behaviors he had before disappeared. He also does not mark his territory everywhere. At the same time though, Tank never fully matured and he still acts like a puppy. He turns 2 years old in January.

Rosa, our 4 month old dachshund, will not be spayed because I am planning on showing her.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:02 am

All 3 of my boys are neutered. 2 of them are flyball (and now dock diving) dogs.

Honestly, I prefer not to have dog testicles on my pillow.

msvette2u

Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby msvette2u » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:01 pm

Dogs do not develop an emotional attachment to any part of their bodies, testicles included.
He'll be happier and healthier when it is said and done.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Pineapples » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:20 pm

Living in a country where the vast majority of males (and females) are intact I never could understand how drastic and exaggerated intact males are portraited on here. I don't recognise this reality at all. (And I sometimes even find it a bit arrogant to imply that neutered males have a better life quality. A normal male dog does not suffer from his testicles.)
Male dogs here don't really roam, they usually get along pretty well with other dogs, they don't mark inside, they're not snarky, they don't hump, and they're not sex-crazed idiots.
They are for the most part happy go lucky guys, healthy and they live long fulfilling lives with their testicles. Some need to be neutered because of medical issues of course, like prostate, cancer etc, in these cases castrating is the right thing to do. But chryptorchism for example is usually solved by removing the undecended testicle not both. Usually bloodtests are run to see if the dogs are overhormonal and not just untrained, for those unruly hormonal behaviors that are always mentioned, neutering is not a magical quick fix. More often than not it is about actually training the dog, not a hormonal imbalance.
And seriously, cutting off pieces of your dogs body just because you find them ugly or gross is not a good enough reason in my book. And surgery for preventative reasons? I dunno... it's a bit iffy and should not be done so easily.
Neutering does not automatically make a happier or healthier dog.

Here in Norway there is even legislation prohibiting speutering dogs without medical reasons. Frankly, I agree with that. Speutering is not all hunky dory either, there can be negative consequences, both physical and behavioral. There is always a risk with sedation, there is pain involved, and there is that pesky moral question about tampering with your dog.
About 10% of dogs in Norway are speutered, compared to 90-95% in USA/Canada (Overall, 1997). I don't think we have more problem behavior or healthproblems here than you do to be completely honest.
While it is true that neutering will lower testosteroneproduction and therfor might (emphasis on might) reduce certain behaviors, it is also true that testosterone influences the threshold for feeling fear and pain where neutered makes actually have a lower threshold (Lindsay 2001). Neutering can also have a negative influence on behavior, for instance on fear aggression.
There is a big picture to be considered here, we can't just pick and choose the information that suits us the best.

Sometimes I wonder if the speutering thing is mostly cultural. Because of the overpopulation you have in North America it makes sense to do heavily spay/neuter on pets and to encourage it on a broad scale, we are lucky enough to not have that problem here (for now at least). I understand this, and although I don't agree with it for the individuals, I do see that it is important in the big picture and that it is an important factor in reducing overpopulation.

There is no easy answer to this, there are pros and cons to everything. It is a personal choice, it is up to you do make an informed one. Good luck! :)

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Finnigan
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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Finnigan » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:28 pm

IMO, testicles and uteruses aren't the problem so much. It's irresponsible people, uneducated people, and many many dumb people that can't responsibly manage intact animals, wandering about!

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby BrokenAquarian » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Spay/Neuter is pushed so hard here probably because of the overpopulation problem. I would say that 90% of dog owners aren't responsible enough to have an intact dog, because of the risk that it will become pregnant or impregnate. Most people will not have the litter aborted because they think killing is wrong. The thing is it always seems, more times than not, most of the pups end up dying anyway. Either from accidents, illness or going to the pound. But, I guess that doesn't matter because it's not on the original owners heads.

If an accident were to come up (your dog getting out) it's easier to have a female than it is a male. If you have a female and she gets pregnant, you can take care of it yourself. If you have a male and he gets someone elses dog pregnant, there is nothing you can do. You can't stop the pups from being born and you have no say in what happens to those pups once they get here.

I've never had a problem with aggression or pissing in the house from an intact male. The dog I have now is the first neutered male I've ever had. He's no different than any of the other intact males I've owned. I did have a male rottwieler once who would be mopey and whine the entire time a female was in heat - which was very annoying. Then again, he'd been bred before, so he knew the smell and exactly what to do. That may have had something to do with it.

There's also a much higher risk of the male running away if there's a female in heat anywhere within smelling distance. It all depends on how strong his hormones are. Some males act as though they couldn't care less. Some act like that's the single most important thing on earth. And then there's everything in between.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Adrianne » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:55 pm

Pineapples wrote:Living in a country where the vast majority of males (and females) are intact I never could understand how drastic and exaggerated intact males are portraited on here. I don't recognise this reality at all. (And I sometimes even find it a bit arrogant to imply that neutered males have a better life quality. A normal male dog does not suffer from his testicles.)
Male dogs here don't really roam, they usually get along pretty well with other dogs, they don't mark inside, they're not snarky, they don't hump, and they're not sex-crazed idiots.
They are for the most part happy go lucky guys, healthy and they live long fulfilling lives with their testicles. Some need to be neutered because of medical issues of course, like prostate, cancer etc, in these cases castrating is the right thing to do. But chryptorchism for example is usually solved by removing the undecended testicle not both. Usually bloodtests are run to see if the dogs are overhormonal and not just untrained, for those unruly hormonal behaviors that are always mentioned, neutering is not a magical quick fix. More often than not it is about actually training the dog, not a hormonal imbalance.
And seriously, cutting off pieces of your dogs body just because you find them ugly or gross is not a good enough reason in my book. And surgery for preventative reasons? I dunno... it's a bit iffy and should not be done so easily.
Neutering does not automatically make a happier or healthier dog.

Here in Norway there is even legislation prohibiting speutering dogs without medical reasons. Frankly, I agree with that. Speutering is not all hunky dory either, there can be negative consequences, both physical and behavioral. There is always a risk with sedation, there is pain involved, and there is that pesky moral question about tampering with your dog.
About 10% of dogs in Norway are speutered, compared to 90-95% in USA/Canada (Overall, 1997). I don't think we have more problem behavior or healthproblems here than you do to be completely honest.
While it is true that neutering will lower testosteroneproduction and therfor might (emphasis on might) reduce certain behaviors, it is also true that testosterone influences the threshold for feeling fear and pain where neutered makes actually have a lower threshold (Lindsay 2001). Neutering can also have a negative influence on behavior, for instance on fear aggression.
There is a big picture to be considered here, we can't just pick and choose the information that suits us the best.

Sometimes I wonder if the speutering thing is mostly cultural. Because of the overpopulation you have in North America it makes sense to do heavily spay/neuter on pets and to encourage it on a broad scale, we are lucky enough to not have that problem here (for now at least). I understand this, and although I don't agree with it for the individuals, I do see that it is important in the big picture and that it is an important factor in reducing overpopulation.

There is no easy answer to this, there are pros and cons to everything. It is a personal choice, it is up to you do make an informed one. Good luck! :)



What an interesting post!

Thank you!

I have one intact male (I have no plan to alter) and one neutered male (he came to me neutered).

I personally think most people are not responsible enough to own unaltered dogs but... I would hate to be told what I can and cannot keep on my dog.

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:26 pm

braciole wrote:this is the most informative, unbiased, research based paper i've come across on the subject.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf


Except that research paper summarizes other research papers that were not as un-biased or well done... the osteosarcoma study, for instance, is widely disputed.

As a veterinarian, my personal experience is that 80% of the hit-by-car pets I see (100% of the DOA cats) were intact males... now where is THAT study???

I'd also like to see if the risk of being hit by a car for animals in countries that don't practice S/N like we do in the US is also higher in intact males.

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Adrianne
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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Adrianne » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:33 pm

Do you think maybe it's a common factor of irresponsibility? Owners who do not control their dogs for their safety from the road are rarely going to also control their dogs in the sense of altering their sex.

Not that being intact drives dogs to dive bomb in the head lights of a moving vehicle?

Just a thought...

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Re: Neutered or Natural?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:39 pm

Hey, I found a study!!
J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1976 Jun 15;168(12):1108-10.
Castration of adult male dogs: effects on roaming, aggression, urine marking, and mounting.
Hopkins SG, Schubert TA, Hart BL.

In a retrospective study involving 42 dogs, it was concluded that the objectionable male behavioral patterns of roaming, fighting with other males, urine marking in the house, and mounting of other dogs or people are amenable to alteration by other castration in adulthood. Roaming was reduced in 90% of the dogs.


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