Questions on Breeding.

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msvette2u

Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby msvette2u » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:11 am

What's really funny (in a sad way) about these conversations is the contrast between a byb style breeder and a responsible one. The last thing on the responsible breeders mind is money...honestly.
It's all about the dogs, their bloodlines, their accomplishments, their potential health issues and what they bring to the table, genetic material-wise, it is the whole package.
You really just don't wake up one day and start breeding puppies.
We all have nice dogs, we all love our dogs, I forget the exact statistics, but something like only 10% of the dogs in the US should ever be bred.
I have no idea what the statistics are but probably a good 70-80% are being allowed to breed now.

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Sarah
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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Sarah » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:46 am

msvette2u wrote:What's really funny (in a sad way) about these conversations is the contrast between a byb style breeder and a responsible one. The last thing on the responsible breeders mind is money...honestly.
It's all about the dogs, their bloodlines, their accomplishments, their potential health issues and what they bring to the table, genetic material-wise, it is the whole package.
You really just don't wake up one day and start breeding puppies.
We all have nice dogs, we all love our dogs, I forget the exact statistics, but something like only 10% of the dogs in the US should ever be bred.
I have no idea what the statistics are but probably a good 70-80% are being allowed to breed now.


Both of those numbers sound inflated. A good many more than 20-30% of US dogs are speutered, and I doubt that as many as 10% of dogs should be bred.

msvette2u

Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby msvette2u » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:58 am

Yeah I'm guessing on the unaltered/breeding part, but 10% is HIGH??

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Savage Destiny » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:09 am

msvette2u wrote:Yeah I'm guessing on the unaltered/breeding part, but 10% is HIGH??


Aren't there something like a million dogs in the U.S.? 10% of a million is 100,000. Do you really think there are that many dogs which have been shown, worked, health tested, and PASSED those health tests?

msvette2u

Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby msvette2u » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:17 am

Well, yeah, when you put it like that...all I know is way too many are being put to sleep daily across the country.
As our vet put it, we can't concentrate on the "big picture" or we suffer burnout - we have to keep it small and personal and focus on that one dog we're helping at the moment or it's just too overwhelming :(
Just now I have 2 pleas for pit bulls in my inbox.
I've sent the requests on to the pit rescues I know in the area, knowing it's futile and all them are full now as well. It just gets damned depressing.

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Sarah
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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Sarah » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am

msvette2u wrote:Yeah I'm guessing on the unaltered/breeding part, but 10% is HIGH??


When I think of all the dogs I know, the numbers are considerably less than 1 in 10 that should be bred. And I know a high percentage of dogs who compete and earn titles.

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby buckaroo » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:37 am

I don't believe 70-80% of dogs in the US are being or have been bred. It's much much lower than that. The number for cats may approach 30% and cats breed (most are accidental or feral) a lot more than dogs.

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Amie » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:19 pm

Sarah wrote:
msvette2u wrote:Yeah I'm guessing on the unaltered/breeding part, but 10% is HIGH??


When I think of all the dogs I know, the numbers are considerably less than 1 in 10 that should be bred. And I know a high percentage of dogs who compete and earn titles.


Yeah, I agree with this.

I would be less startled to hear that 1% should be bred than 10%. 1 in 100 might be breeding quality... but I doubt that. 1 in 10... that I flat out do not believe.

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby WackyJacki » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:52 pm

:switch:

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:18 pm

Amie wrote:
Sarah wrote:Yeah, I agree with this.

I would be less startled to hear that 1% should be bred than 10%. 1 in 100 might be breeding quality... but I doubt that. 1 in 10... that I flat out do not believe.


I agree... for animals like horses who only produce a single offspring per year, 1 in 10 is more acceptable, but for canines who produce up to 20 pups per year, 1 in 100 is much more appropriate.

Red Chrome

Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Red Chrome » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:24 pm

ProudMommy77 wrote:
Rachel&Halo wrote:
by Mooresmajestic » December 31st, 2009, 11:31 am
There is NO money in breeding done the right way and for the right reasons.


So there is no money in breeding if done correctly? Then I have really learned something.

WOW- holy crud! I never even realized the $ figure was so high till I wrote it out! Yup, I'm just gonna go back to my happy denial state and eat my ramen noodles for lunch so I can go to the weight pull tomorrow!


LOL



yup, Mooresmajestic is correct, I had this conversation with a ABD breeder I know, when telling me what they spent in one year, to produce one litter, in the end let the figure was, he was out of about ten thousand dollars. He had said flat out, I couldn't make my money back if I tried. And breeding is a crap shoot, sometimes the tie doesn't take, sometimes you end up with more pet quality then working and or show quality, sometimes all the health testing that you put in the dog, doesn't come back with good scores, and even at times breedings that have been planned for a while take, but then the pups die, or you have to take the bitch in for a c section, not cheap by any means. However, as I stated breed to better the breed you choose, not for cash because if you know what your doing, your not making anything.


It's the same in GSDs, by the time you put all the time and money into a dog/s and get them to the point where you are comfortable breeding them, there is a TON of more work to consider before you actually do the breeding. If you are doing it right, you won't make any money, once you figure all the costs. I do plan on breeding my GSD after he titles and I get the results of his last health test, his health testing came back good so far, but the last test is a make it or break it as it is a DNA test to see if he is a carrier/affected/non-affected of DM(Degenerative Mylepoathy) that is very common in GSDs. I already have a ton of money into him and we aren't close to breeding just yet. You also need to decide as a breeder what your contract should be and what you're doing with the pet puppies, whether you're culling by speutering or actually culling. All my puppies will be sold on Limited Registration status, that will only be lifted for certain owners and dogs AFTER health testing and titling is done.

That said, I would never breed an APBT/AST. There are too many out there waiting for homes and the repsonsible homes are few and far between for them. I would not want the additional responsibility that comes with breeding APBTs.

There is a lot to think about regarding breeding before you decide to do it. I think that Sarah and Amie are right about the numbers, there are very few dogs that should actually be bred. 1 in 100 seems about right to me.

Courtney

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby FBODGRL » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:42 pm

Interesting I didn't know they could test for DM. One of our GSD's had it years ago and 2 others have had EPI/SIBO and another had mega esophagus :sad:

Red Chrome

Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby Red Chrome » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:15 pm

FBODGRL wrote:Interesting I didn't know they could test for DM. One of our GSD's had it years ago and 2 others have had EPI/SIBO and another had mega esophagus :sad:


It is relatively new, I read about it on a GSD forum and then looked it up, I'm pretty sure it goes through OFA but I'd have to double check it.

Courtney

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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby FBODGRL » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:46 pm

Red Chrome wrote:
FBODGRL wrote:Interesting I didn't know they could test for DM. One of our GSD's had it years ago and 2 others have had EPI/SIBO and another had mega esophagus :sad:


It is relatively new, I read about it on a GSD forum and then looked it up, I'm pretty sure it goes through OFA but I'd have to double check it.

Courtney



Very interesting!

If you find out more info about it or anything else they can DNA check I would love to know. My parents current GSD is 2, but I am sure they will continue owning this breed forever even though they have not had good luck with their health at all!

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jazminesgranny
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Re: Questions on Breeding.

Postby jazminesgranny » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:04 pm

I think everything that could be said has been said.. I spend a lot of time at our local shelter where 75% of the dogs in there are pits. I wish dogs could talk I would love to hear their stories on how they ended up in the shelter.. I am sure they were all loved when they were 8, 9 10 weeks old.. but what happened after that?? I am sure a precentage of them came from someone with good intentions, I am sure some of them even came from reputable breeders.. after all even good breeders can't guarantee what will happen when the dog leaves them..

I, like others would urge you not to breed your dog, if you have a friend who wants one point them in the direction of petfinder or the local shelter.. save a life..

I have 3 females and 1 male dog.. they are all fixed.. when I had my male fixed I had someone waiting to see the vet ask me why I was fixing him.. I looked at the guy and said because I love him and I am a responsible pet owner..

Good luck with what ever you decide but before you do I would urge you to look on pet finder at all the pits, look at your local shelter and see the faces of the lost.. its heart breaking..

Debby


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