Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

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BrokenAquarian
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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby BrokenAquarian » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:27 pm

I've just purchased my second bag of TOTW and the dogs love it. They go through about 1 40(or is it 35?)pound bag a month. I've got them on the Buffalo flavor, but I think I'll try out the fish one next month, just to mix it up a little :)

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby jboodro » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:30 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:I've just purchased my second bag of TOTW and the dogs love it. They go through about 1 40(or is it 35?)pound bag a month. I've got them on the Buffalo flavor, but I think I'll try out the fish one next month, just to mix it up a little :)



i just bought one of each, the salmon, bison, and whatever the other one is. is it true that when im done with one i can switch immediately to the next without having to mix?

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby dan52 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:16 pm

I bit the bullet too and bought the high prairie for Smoke, just fed him lunch and he loves it!!! We'll see if it is as good as advertised

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby PaigeJ » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:39 pm

dan52 wrote:I bit the bullet too and bought the high prairie for Smoke, just fed him lunch and he loves it!!! We'll see if it is as good as advertised


It definitely is! I've been feeding Maili taste of the wild since she was 7 1/2 weeks old :)) Now she's 10 months and is very healthy, has a nice coat, and has a crazy amount of energy (though that last thing probably has nothing to do with the food lol)

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Lisalrenee » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:58 pm

jboodro wrote:
BrokenAquarian wrote:I've just purchased my second bag of TOTW and the dogs love it. They go through about 1 40(or is it 35?)pound bag a month. I've got them on the Buffalo flavor, but I think I'll try out the fish one next month, just to mix it up a little :)



i just bought one of each, the salmon, bison, and whatever the other one is. is it true that when im done with one i can switch immediately to the next without having to mix?


I switch flavors w/ each bag (about every 10 days in my house) and never mix or ease. We don't have any issues here with that, and everyone here eats it, from the 8 month old APBT (who has been on it since she came home at 12 weeks) to my 11 year old rat terrier. They all look great and act great!

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby dan52 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:43 pm

I think I will switch it up each bag too. One of the blends has less protein and fat than the other two so that should be beneifical for a moose like I have :)

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Mooresmajestic » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:03 pm

The fish formula has protein levels of about 25% i think. I haven't raised Vi on it, but I used to feed Canidade when she was little (started her on this at the breeders at 8 wks till 1 yr old) Then she was switched to Merrick (proteins in the 25% range) so I could rotate proteins more, then to TOTW at about 1 1/2 yrs old because she needed the high protein. She is now on a mix of B.G. and Pfromm purely because I got those half price when a store was going out of business, but will probably keep her on the B.G.

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby mnmh » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:30 pm

I am new here on PBF but I thought I'd chime in anyway. I have an 8 month old Pit mix and a 13 year old Cairn Terrier. I was feeding them Purina brand dog food. Well, I joined a dog forum and my eyes were opened to dog food. I researched for weeks and finally narrowed my choices down to TOTW and Blue Buffalo. These two foods I can get locally. TOTW claimed to be an "all life stages" food and I liked that idea. I emailed both companies with questions and also asked for coupons and/or samples. Both companies answered my emails promptly with TOTW sending me 12 sample bags of food and a brochure with nutritional information. In the end, I chose TOTW and started the transition the end of December. Both dogs are on TOTW and doing very well. I feed them the High Prairie formula now but plan on rotating with the other flavors. I was not aware of the calcium concern. Can someone explain this to me? Am I very pleased with TOTW and the dogs gobble it up!

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:41 pm

Since your pup is 8 months old, he's old enough that you don't have to worry about the calcium so much anymore...

When puppies are born, their calcium needs are high, so the bodies natural response is to absorb ALL calcium... and the calcium absorption decreases slowly as the dog ages. When large breed puppies eat too much calcium, it can encourage their bones to grow too quickly, making them more likely to have orthopedic problems such as hip dysplasia later in life.

Food, genetics and excercise all play a role in hip development, so if you didn't start your pup on a high calcium food until later in life, you probably didn't do any harm at all. Its just a good precaution for those people who do have large breed dogs, and pit bulls are usually small enough they are only minimally affected anyway...

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Midniteblack » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:44 pm

I'm raising my Winter on it and this is a pic of her.
Image
Image

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Midniteblack » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:45 pm

She's three months old today. And she eats the High Prairie... although I might change to the salmon flavor next time.

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby merriterrier » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:27 pm

I feed TOTW to all my dogs including Victoria who has been on it since she was 10wks (now 9mo). My only concern is that it doesn't seem like she has ever gotten the puppy pudge. She is a svelte 35lbs and eats 4C/day (2C am and pm). She has had full blood panels and fecals: so no worms, parasites or underlying illness. Though she looks and acts great; I would really like a little more cover on her, especially since it is freezing cold here and she looks like she has been conditioned to the point of zero fat. In fact most of my dogs stay lean on TOTW even though they all eat 1.5 -2x (3x for Chilli-huahua)the recommended amount (yes they have all been vet checked and wormed). I wonder if it is b/c most of the dogs here are high energy/well exercised dogs? When we were feeding Canidea, Chick Soup Puppy, or Diamond Naturals the dogs seemed to stay at a good weight w/o feeding so much. I currently feed the Pacific Stream formula, but have fed the Bison (think it is called Prairie) and the Wetlands formulas.

I have also noticed that when I get underweight dogs (fosters) it takes a long time for them to put on weight, so I mix TOTW with Chick Soup puppy, or Wellness puppy (depending on what is available at the one store within 100 miles that sells good foods).

I'm not complaining, I really like the food, and my dogs have never looked better on a kibble. Just musing...

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Allie » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:53 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote: When large breed puppies eat too much calcium, it can encourage their bones to grow too quickly, making them more likely to have orthopedic problems such as hip dysplasia later in life..


Our orthopedic surgeon explained to us that HD dogs are either born with HD or not, it is just the symptoms that change and not the grade. Your statement would contradict that, though. Do you know for sure?

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:41 am

Allie wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote: When large breed puppies eat too much calcium, it can encourage their bones to grow too quickly, making them more likely to have orthopedic problems such as hip dysplasia later in life..


Our orthopedic surgeon explained to us that HD dogs are either born with HD or not, it is just the symptoms that change and not the grade. Your statement would contradict that, though. Do you know for sure?


Yes... here are some selected quotes from "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th Edition"

p. 247 Besides being breed dependent, growth rates of young dogs are dependent on the nutrient density of food and the amount of food fed. Puppies should be fed to grow at an average rate rather than at a maximum rate for their breed. Growing animals reach a similar adult weight weather growth rate is rapid or slow. Feeding for maximum growth rate increases the risk of skeletal deformities and has been shown to decrease longevity in other species

As a rule of thumb, small and medium sized dogs (adult weight up to 25 kg) should reach about 50% of their body weight at about 4 months and dogs with adult weights greater than 25 kg at about 5 months of age.

p. 249 - Calcium and Phosphorus:
Although growing dogs need more calcium and phosphorus than adult dogs, the minimum requirements are relatively low. Puppies have been successfully raised on foods containing 0.37 to 0.6% DM calcium and 0.33% phosphorus. Intestinal absorption of calcium can vary from 0 to 90% and phosphorus absorption can increase to almost 80% to adapt to intake. In general, calcium absorption is dependent on requirements and calcium intake. Calcium homeostasis mechanisms may be less precise in young puppies. In puppies between two and six months of age, intestinal absorption of calcium never decreases below approximately 40%, even if they receive high levels of calcium in foods. Retention of calcium, therefore, increases when young dogs receive high levels of calcium, either in the food or as a supplement. Absorption of calcium gradually becomes more regulated after puppies are about 10 months old.
Foods for large and giant breed puppies should contain between 0.7 to 1.2% DM calcium, and the food should provide about 3.5 kcal ME/g DM. Foods with a calcium content of 1.1% DM provide more calcium to puppies just after weaning than if bitch's milk were fed exclusively. Because small dogs are less sensitive to slightly overfeeding or underfeeding with calcium, the level of calcium in foods for smaller breed puppies can range from 0.7 to 1.7% DM without risk. The phosphorus intake is less critical than the calcium intake, provided the minimum requirements of 0.35% DM are met, and the calcium-phosphorus ratio is between 1:1 and 1.8:1.

p. 250:
Large and Giant breed dogs should be fed a food that contains less energy and calcium to decrease the risk of development of orthopedic disease. If possible, such foods should be fed during early weaning. The greatest influence of nutrition on the incidence of phenotypic hip dysplasia was seen when energy was restricted early in life.

p. 507: Key points - Development of Orthopedic Disease
2. Canine hip dysplasia and osteochondrosis make up the overwhelming majority of musculoskeletal problems with a possible nutrition-related etiology.
5. The most critical period for the development of othopedic disease (DOD) occurs during the growht phase, before epiphyseal closure.
6. Specific risk factors that are currently thought to increase the risk of DOD in young dogs include: 1) belonging to a large or giant breed, 2) free-choice feeding, 3) feeding high-energy foods and 4) excessive calcium intake from food, treats and supplements.
9. Excessive intakes of calcium and energy, together with rapid growht, appear to predispose puppies to hip dysplasia and osteochondrosis.
13. Protein excess has not been shown to negatively affect skeletal development in young dogs.

Any questions :D
I can also get the cited references to the specific studies if any of these statements is of interest to you... thats part of the reason I noted page numbers so, that way it won't take too much effort to fill in the gaps later.

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Re: Taste of the wild, ok for pups?

Postby Allie » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:58 am

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. It looks like Phenotypic HD can be impacted by food choice, which makes sense to me if they are talking about symptoms as phenotype. My dog has HD but shows no phenotype. (not yet anyway, thank goodness!)
I can certainly understand how symptoms would be impacted by nutrition, but it seems like most of those reference orthopedic disease, but not specifically HD.
I'm not questioning that calcium/phosphorus ratios and protein levels are important for development and should be paid attention to, I'm just wondering why our specialist would have explained it to us in that manner. It is curious.
I wonder what role the nutrition of the mama would play during embryo development, then?
We are actually going to be doing a study regarding the genetics of HD soon. I guess I'll learn a ton more then!
Thanks for your response MissKiwi!


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