So, yeah.

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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jtalt7
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Re: So, yeah.

Postby jtalt7 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:39 pm

Libby wrote:Thanks, everyone.

I PM'ed MissKiwi to get a little more information, I'm going to see if I can find a specialist in Albuquerque to send the x-rays to.

I took Hoss to a different vet than I did Gypsy.


I am glad you are getting a second opinion because I was thinking the same thing as misskiwi.

Did your vet mention to you that you could combine the Gabapentin with other pain medications? I had RJ on that along with his tramadol and I know ortho dogs are on that with NSAIDs after their TPLOS. Just something to think about.

I know the second opinion is not going to help with the pain but it may direct you to a different clinic when it comes to diagnosing issues in the future. It is tough to receive that kind of diagnosis and when it possibly could be wrong......

Good luck to you.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Libby » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:53 pm

Yeah, he did tell me that if it didn't seem the Gabapentin was working well enough on its own I could start giving him the Tramadol as well.

The problem here is that there are only two clinics in Gallup. The next closest would be roughly 2 hours away, in either Albuquerque or Farmington.

If I get results back from the specialist that are completely different/opposite than what I'm hearing from the vet here, I might just start making the two hour trek to get correct results the first time.

I'm not by any means an expert, but when I first looked at the x-rays of Hoss's poor elbows, my stomach about fell through the floor. The left elbow has no actual 'joint' left. Its just pretty much flat bone on flat bone, and it is all very rough looking and it goes down into the bone. On his right elbow, it doesn't look that bad, but it also has the rough looking spots around the joint and down the limb.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby jtalt7 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:28 pm

Sounds like bi lateral displasia with extreme arthritis without looking at the xrays. Osteosarcoma looks like moth eaten bone and it very rarely crosses the joint capsule let alone show up on two legs without going to the lungs or something like that. I hope Misskiwi corrects me if I am wrong.

I am sorry you have such a hard time getting the help you need. I take for granted I have always had such a great support system for my fosters and own dogs since the beginning with my vet care no matter what city I have been in. If you would like I can get you the information so you can have your vet send the rads to The University of MO Vet School for ortho consult for like $35 and you get results within like 3 days.

Just let me know

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:33 pm

jtalt7 wrote:Sounds like bi lateral displasia with extreme arthritis without looking at the xrays. Osteosarcoma looks like moth eaten bone and it very rarely crosses the joint capsule let alone show up on two legs without going to the lungs or something like that. I hope Misskiwi corrects me if I am wrong.

I am sorry you have such a hard time getting the help you need. I take for granted I have always had such a great support system for my fosters and own dogs since the beginning with my vet care no matter what city I have been in. If you would like I can get you the information so you can have your vet send the rads to The University of MO Vet School for ortho consult for like $35 and you get results within like 3 days.

Just let me know


Yup, you're exactly right. Its almost unheard of for osteosarcoma to cross a joint. There are other joint cancers that cross joints however, but again, it would be HIGHLY unusual for it to affect both joints, but nothing else.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Mya&theSiebenDackels » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:23 pm

I am so sorry. Sending good thoughts for you and Hoss. :hug:

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Zagari » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:47 pm

I'm really sorry to hear about Hoss. He's a tough ol' guy.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby jamielvsaustin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:16 am

jtalt7 wrote:Sounds like bi lateral displasia with extreme arthritis without looking at the xrays. Osteosarcoma looks like moth eaten bone and it very rarely crosses the joint capsule let alone show up on two legs without going to the lungs or something like that. I hope Misskiwi corrects me if I am wrong.

I am sorry you have such a hard time getting the help you need. I take for granted I have always had such a great support system for my fosters and own dogs since the beginning with my vet care no matter what city I have been in. If you would like I can get you the information so you can have your vet send the rads to The University of MO Vet School for ortho consult for like $35 and you get results within like 3 days.

Just let me know



Libby if you want to do this but don't have the money, I'll pay for it. Hoss can have my $35 :(

I'm to scared and sad to say anythimg more so :hug: :hug: :hug: <---these are big hard hugs.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Libby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:54 pm

jamielvsaustin wrote:Libby if you want to do this but don't have the money, I'll pay for it. Hoss can have my $35 :(

I'm to scared and sad to say anythimg more so :hug: :hug: :hug: <---these are big hard hugs.


Thank you so much Jamie, I really appreciate the offer. I'm getting the file from jtalt7 and I'm going into the vet on Thursday, so hopefully I can get it sent off by the end of this week, no later than early next week. I have it covered, but really, thank you.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Libby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:23 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to ask about this.

I spoke to the vet about doing a biopsy, that would pretty much give me a completely concrete answer one way or the other, wouldn't it?

I was also thinking that regardless of what the specialists say, I would probably opt for a biopsy anyway just to be 100% positive that is/is not what it is.

Are there negative side affects to having a bone marrow biopsy? I think I recall something about it severely weakening the bones, but I can't remember correctly.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:05 am

Libby wrote:Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to ask about this.

I spoke to the vet about doing a biopsy, that would pretty much give me a completely concrete answer one way or the other, wouldn't it?


If your vet doesn't go deep enough into the bone and only gets the surface... the biopsy can come back as reactive bone, which is essentially arthritis, which would be REALLY confusing in this case. If there is cancer there, the bone is already weak, and taking a chunk out can make the weakened bone more likely to fracture.

I would start with the x-ray referral, and then go to biopsy if there is any question. If it does come back definitive, it will help a lot with future decisions.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Libby » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:26 am

Thank you, MissKiwi.

Ok, I was just looking at his x-rays and the osteosarcoma is actually in his left shoulder, not his elbow

I don't know how I got confused about it being in the elbows. It does appear that it is showing in his right elbow, but it is for certain his left shoulder that is affected most strongly.

I'm trying to upload photos right now but I'm having issues with my internet, so we will see.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby VC_Reno » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:35 am

:teardrops:

I'm sorry to hear this Libby. You and Hoss will be in my thoughts.

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Libby » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:57 am

Ok, here is his left shoulder. I know its kind of hard to make out, but we took three separate x-rays and this was the best one.
Image

And his right elbow.
Image

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:22 am

Libby wrote:I don't know how I got confused about it being in the elbows. It does appear that it is showing in his right elbow, but it is for certain his left shoulder that is affected most strongly.


And a shoulder, even the shoulder blade, is much more likely to have osteosarcoma than an elbow. However, having seen the x-ray, it crosses the joint. I still think this is REALLY REALLY REALLY bad arthritis, but with a copy, I can't make a call either way.

The right elbow... I'll just be honest and tell you I royally stink at elbows, so I'm not even going to comment. I always get second opinions on elbows, even at work.

I still think you should ship these off to a radiologist. Since those are digital images, you can sign up to have them sent here and get results really quickly, often the same day. This is where we sent our radiology images when our local radiologist in Washington was on vacation.
http://www.illumipet.com/

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Re: So, yeah.

Postby jewelsdaddy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:29 am

You guys are in our thoughts! :hug:


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