Bitter Apple & substitutes

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Amie
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Amie » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:09 pm

Thanks guys, the horror stories of dogs hanging themselves are really helping.



*sigh*


I've started over from ground zero for her training, and she will be lose (and destructive) in the house until I can build up enough time that I feel she's safer in the crate. And yes, reinforced and weighted down and all kinds of fun stuff.

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Adrianne
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Adrianne » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:15 pm

:hug:

I feel for you, that seriously blows... but I am sure you'll figure it out :hug:

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby mommy2kane » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:35 pm

msvette2u wrote:I think the worst part is, once they've figured out they could rip their way out of a crate, they will make it their mission to destroy every crate they come into contact with. . .


I agree with this. I went through the same thing with Kane until I finally put him in a crate that was indestructible. After that day, he hasn't really challenged his crate and can be trusted in a wire crate or vari-kennel when necessary.

Good luck, Amie.

msvette2u

Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby msvette2u » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:50 pm

We had a black lab girl a while back who had SA, but we did not realize the extent as we always crate when we're gone.
Then she went to a new home...they had the same crate but failed to get the top part latched.
She got out and destroyed part of their home.
They did the same the next day and she got it open again and destroyed more of their home.
They brought her back :(
She had never got out at our place, but when she realized she could, there just simply was no stopping her.

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Adrianne
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Adrianne » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:58 pm

well thats encouraging... lol Seriously though Amie, I have had several SA dogs, true SA (I'm actually beginning to fear I attract or worse create them) and eventually it works out always. I haven't failed yet learning how to work around their freakish tantrums. Shamoo in the car is bad, bad, bad but we're learning. Strangely Arnold who's got the worst claustrophobia (terrified of being in a crate or a small space :dunno: ) has always been a breeze in the car alone.

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Poohs Dad
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Poohs Dad » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:05 am

Maybe a shot of something like this in the trash?

http://www.odordestroyer.com/Merchant2/ ... 5QodlkG-ZA

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby HappyPuppy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:52 am

Ugh. good luck with that! Ruby ate the garage one nite when we first got her (didn't know about the 2-week shutdown then) and I was fearful it would be a trend but, luckily, that was the only episode... For the record, vinegar and hot things are yummy treats in this house, so something stronger may be in order for the lil troublemaker.

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Semper Bull
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Semper Bull » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:59 pm

We use this product: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... lmdn=Price it seems to work better than the bitter apple for my chewer; I do have to periodically reapply it to things I do not want her to destroy. As far as crates, what about a wire crate with a metal pan? I have this crate: http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... &pf_id=131

The door is made so they cannot pull it inwards, and the metal pan keeps them from breaking out of the bottom of the crate. The only thing I have heard that works for dogs that cannot be contained in a crate is a "tiger cage" like these: http://leerburg.com/crate.htm. Unfortunately, they are very pricey.

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby mommy2kane » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:11 pm

Semper Bull wrote:The door is made so they cannot pull it inwards, and the metal pan keeps them from breaking out of the bottom of the crate.


Unfortunately, that's not the case with all dogs. My male broke out of several wire crates, and most times, he didn't get out the door. The pan at the bottom is also not a guarantee. He broke out of the bottom, prying up all the wires on the bottom of the crate and squeezing his body out from under the crate (slicing his head pretty good in the process). He didn't care though, probably didn't even notice.

Semper Bull wrote:The only thing I have heard that works for dogs that cannot be contained in a crate is a "tiger cage" like these: http://leerburg.com/crate.htm. Unfortunately, they are very pricey.


Leerburg has several aluminum crates, but they are crazy expensive. I ended up buying this crate for Kane: http://www.petedge.com/product/ProSelect-Empire-Cages/45512.uts --- Once he realized he couldn't break out, the attempts stopped. And it's much cheaper than some of the other aluminium crates. Now he can be trusted in regular wire crates and plastic crates. Granted, they're still a bit pricey, but I think I would've saved money in the end had I just bought this crate from the jump! lol

Amie - I hope Liberty gets better at the crate thing!

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Ilovethepits » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:25 pm

I think you already tried keeping her in a room but she got out the door?
How about a gate so she can still see what is going on, would that help her not want to break out?
I'm thinking since she is an alert barker also that maybe she is busting out to investigate noises outside your house.
I'm not at all experienced with SA though so just throwing things out there.
I'm very sorry that you and Liberty are going through this again.

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Adrianne » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:35 pm

Ilovethepits wrote:I think you already tried keeping her in a room but she got out the door?
How about a gate so she can still see what is going on, would that help her not want to break out?
I'm thinking since she is an alert barker also that maybe she is busting out to investigate noises outside your house.
I'm not at all experienced with SA though so just throwing things out there.
I'm very sorry that you and Liberty are going through this again.

Double stacked stair gates (so she can't climb over them as easily) may be a great idea!

I recommended a long time ago the tie out in the house idea because thats all that works for Arnold but poor miss Liberty sounds like she would hate that too. But! not being able to see what's going on really is the reason many dogs freak in crates imo.

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Amie
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Amie » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:26 pm

Yeah I ordered three gates from Amazon (two to stack and one back up) since they were $15 each. They shipped today.

We tried a tie down briefly as part of housetraining, and she just runs to the end and bounces and runs to the end and bounces and runs to the end and bounces, and I'm afraid she'd snap her neck.

She's been loose when I left the house the past couple of days, because I don't want to shove her in the crate too early - we're going slow and doing lots of gentle training with that.

Which means every day I come home to what looks like a frat party.

*sigh*

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Adrianne
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Adrianne » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:30 pm

lol oh no... let us know the progress :hug:

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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Mooresmajestic » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:27 pm

I have used Tabasco sauce in the past. Vi LOVES bitter-apple/lemon juice and would willingly drink it from the bottle LOL ! Or maybe rig a "scat mat" by the trash can? :huh?: I wonder if there would be a way to rig citronella spray to the can so it sprays when the lid is open? :huh?:

Do you have the space to put a smaller trash can in a cupboard with a child lock on the door?

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Amie
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Re: Bitter Apple & substitutes

Postby Amie » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:11 am

Mooresmajestic wrote:I have used Tabasco sauce in the past. Vi LOVES bitter-apple/lemon juice and would willingly drink it from the bottle LOL ! Or maybe rig a "scat mat" by the trash can? :huh?: I wonder if there would be a way to rig citronella spray to the can so it sprays when the lid is open? :huh?:

Do you have the space to put a smaller trash can in a cupboard with a child lock on the door?


She's broken through two child-safety locks. And I haven't tried basic Tabasco, but she loves hot buffalo sauce.


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