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what to include in a diet
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:07 am
hello... this is the girlfriend, kimmie!
my fiance' and i have been reading a lot of different things about a good diet for poplin. most people have been saying that RAW food is the best diet, since this is what they would naturally eat.
his old owners were feeding him natural balance, a vegaterian dog food and had been changing his diet with every new bag of food, but we felt he needed more protien and fat in his diet.. so tonight we went and bought some hamburger meat, carrots, corn, eggs, and cottage cheese to suppliment his diet with. obviously we cannot afford to feed him like this every night of the week for the rest of his life. we were thinking about adding all these things in, with his regular food maybe once a week on a regular basis. we actually mixed it in with his food tonight and it's the first time we've seen him eat ALL of his food at one sitting.
does anyone know how much of this he should be getting, if these suppliments are good for him (or if there are any other natural foods that would be good) and how many times a week he should be getting it. his previous owners were sort of neo-hippyish so they believed he should be eating naturally (i.e. veg dog food). we to a certain extent believe he should be eating naturally too.. so we are really looking for 'natural' things that are good for him.. not any suppliment pills or pastes or anything like that. any suggestions are appreciated.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:08 am
of all raw beef to eat, i wouldnt recomend hamburger meat. my dads been a butcher for 20 yrs so i know a little bit about that stuff. hamburger meat come from a lot of different cuts of beef and is all exposed to the air at diff. times and also handled the most. with raw beef bones its from only one animal and most the meat isnt exposed at all.
just my 2 cents
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:46 am
damienApbt wrote:of all raw beef to eat, i wouldnt recomend hamburger meat. my dads been a butcher for 20 yrs so i know a little bit about that stuff. hamburger meat come from a lot of different cuts of beef and is all exposed to the air at diff. times and also handled the most. with raw beef bones its from only one animal and most the meat isnt exposed at all.
That makes sense... What type of meat would
you suggest? Like, a steak of some sort? Preferably something on the cheap..
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:17 am
if you're really interested in doing a barf diet, i reccommend you look into it more. it's not expensive at all if you find good places to buy your stuff. i recently found turkey necks for 29 cents a lb. at this price it costs me about $20 a month to feed roxy and she eats a little more than a lb of food a day plus snacks.
if you'd rather do kibble, there are tons of high quality kibble out there. my personal favorite was nature's variety, but foods like canidae, innova, and wellness are good too.
it's generally not a good idea to mix raw food and kibble at the same meal though. they apparently digest at different rates which is bad (i'm not too knowledgable in this, i'm sure someone else could chime in). supplementing with yogurt and cottage cheese(if your pup tolerates dairy), fruits and veggies, and meat at seperate times from kibble is nice happy medium though.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:21 am
I don't do BARF, I do rawfeeding. My dogs get raw meat and bones, eggs, and other stuff such as liver. It is much easier than BARF (cheaper, too), and from what I've read, more biologically appropriate for a dog. You won't see them eating veggies and cottage cheese in the wild! They may occasionally get a small amount of vegetable matter from the stomachs of prey, but this is mostly grasses, not broccoli and such. And many wild dogs / wolves have been seen avoiding eating the stomach, so this is debateable. Plus, dogs don't have the enzymes to digest veggies unless they are completely broken down, and even then we don't really know how much they are digesting and how much is just passing through.
To find out more on rawfeeding, go to www.rawfeeding.com
, or check out the yahoo group rawfeeding. They are experts there and can answer all your questions. If you do join, though, go on daily digest or no mail, not individual mails, because it is a very high volume list and your mailbox will be overloaded!
As far as what I actually feed, I feed a lot of chicken leg quarters (I pay .37/# at Wal Mart), pork necks (in large pieces, not little chunks), and whatever else I find on sale. I've heard a ton of opinions on how much bone to meat, but I try to base what I feed on actual prey. Lots of people feed chicken backs, but they are mostly bone and little meat, and I feel the dog needs about half and half. Each meal should have some meat and some bone, but not huge hard bones like soup bones and beef leg bones (they can crack teeth and most dogs can't really eat them, just chew them). Just make sure if you feed bones, they are raw, not cooked, that's what makes them brittle.
I do supplement with eggs and fish oil, because my boy has dry, itchy skin in the winter. But as for all the veggies and such, I don't think my dog, being a carnivore, needs it. And, mine don't like it anyways! They get some table scraps, so they do get a little cooked veggies, but that's it.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:08 pm
twiseowl wrote:I don't do BARF, I do rawfeeding. My dogs get raw meat and bones, eggs, and other stuff such as liver.
isnt that what barf is....bones and raw food.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:12 pm
I agree with owl. You don't see to many wolves, foxes, coyotes, and wild dogs eating yogurt and carrots. They eat muscle meat and organ meat and pretty much leave the rest.
I feed hamburger, flat iron steak, chop steak, whole chicken legs and thighs and fish to my dogs.
I've been feeding Angel raw hamburger for 2 1/2 years now and she has ZERO health problems.
I feed small amounts of pork because it tends to be hard on their stomachs.
Feeding the right amount of food to your dog is just as important as what you feed them. Experimenting is the only way to find out how much your dog needs to eat to maintain it's weight.
Good luck. That raw site has some great information too.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:14 pm
Cool deal. Thanks for all the replies so far. From reading this stuff, some other posts in the health forum, and general research on other sites, I'm definately going to change Poplin's food. This vegetarian diet his old owners put him on is no bueno. We'll fix that right up though.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:54 pm
No, BARF and rawfeeding are not the same. Similar, but different. Rawfeeding is based on a prey model, in fact many people do feed the whole prey item (chickens, rabbits, half a goat, etc.)
BARF includes many other things besides meat and bones - yogurt, veggies, many supplements, it can be a complex formula that is very daunting to a newbie. I researched it a while back and thought - no way, I don't do that much preparation on MY food! A lot of stuff is ground or processed and mixed into a mush, and it seems to take a lot of work.
On looking around more, I found info on rawfeeding, and liked it a lot. It is fairly simple, just try to feed the dog most of an animal, over the course of a week or longer. I give pork or beef liver at least once a week. Lots of people swear by tripe and brains, and almost any innards they can find. I don't have all that readily available to me, so I do with what I can find.
Also, many people on the rawfeeding list feed lots of pork (including me). I've never noticed it being hard on my dog's stomach's, they love it in fact and eat it wil no problems. Just my experience, of course!
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:03 pm
it can be a complex formula that is very daunting to a newbie. I researched it a while back and thought - no way, I don't do that much preparation on MY food! A lot of stuff is ground or processed and mixed into a mush, and it seems to take a lot of work.
i can see your point here. i think a lot of people over complicate the diet, but really it's not a lot of work at all. once every two months or so i throw a variety of veggies and fruit into the blender, scoop some into ice trays and freeze. that's all the preparation it takes. her meat (generally the same stuff youre feeding) just gets thawed and eaten. i do give her yogurt and cottage cheese, but because she likes it, not because i think she needs it. i don't use any supplements either, that makes no sense to me.
i'm interested in this raw food thing, but the link you put up sent me to a search engine and when i did my own search all i got was barf. know where i can get more info?
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:00 pm
Interesting that there is a difference between BARF and raw. I guess that makes me a raw feeder. Mine get veggies and they do like them. I don't grind anything but the veggies. I won't feed pork, don't like the idea of trichinosis thank you. They say it isn't much of an issue anymore but, well, I don't trust the meat industry. Mine get both dry and raw, separate feedings. I have done this for almost a decade.
Vegetarian diets for dogs and cats is a really bad idea. Being carnivores it makes no sense! I'm glad you got him off that food and onto something he can actually do well on. Nature's Variety is a good dry food, you can cycle through their formulas with out any trouble. Raw is best but not everyone can/will do it.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:21 pm
What do ya'll suggest for an apartment dog? We would love to feed Poplin a diet of all raw food... but we live in an art gallery in the city and I'm not too keen on the idea of chicken carcasses near the art.
What about something middle-of-the-road? I'm thinking of switching to Canidae kibbles with raw hamburger, egg, cottage cheese, maybe carrots, corn, & peas as a daily suppliment. That would be doable, I think... I've read that veggies have to be pureed, why is that?
....but chicken carcasses in an art gallery? I guess we could call it performance art.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:36 pm
Canidae is a high quality food that usually does not require supplements. I suppose you could alternate days with raw or cut back the amount of kibble and give raw in addition to it. The vegetables are ground or sluiced up in a blender because the dogs really can't digest whole vegetables and fruit. Think of it as eating the stomach and it's contents. I've been reading up on this subject for awhile but haven't gone raw or BARF yet. I need to get another refrigerator/freezer. Don't think my wife wants to see all those raw meaty bones in the one in our kitchen.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:46 pm
cisom wrote:I suppose you could alternate days with raw or cut back the amount of kibble and give raw in addition to it.
That's what I meant to say... A little Canidae kibble, a little raw beef, etc.
If they cannot digest the veggies, why do so many include it in their pup's diet? What about dairy such as cottage cheese or even egg?
Thanks for all the info guys!
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:54 pm
Just be careful with feeding to much fiber(Veggies) as it can tear up a dogs insides and make them bleed. I'm not sure why they cant digest it all but they arent the same as us! I feed Canidae with Sea Meal Supplement and Ive seen such a HUGE change in Gizmo. I feed her an egg about 1 time a week but Ive heard people do it every day, once again not sure if this is good for them. Cottage Cheese and Yogurt are GREAT for a dog, So is rice, Helps thier stomach not get upset!