RAW feeding couple questions

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FBODGRL
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RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:24 am

I posted in the RAW thread, but haven't got any answers.

I started feeding Khan NV premade RAW for 1 meal a few weeks ago. A few days ago we went to every meal. Tomorrow we are starting full RAW. I am doing prey model (I think) 80/10/10. I am starting him with beef for 2 weeks, as it is recommended to do 1 protein for 2 weeks to start. For the muscle meat I got stew meat, ground beef and roast. For organ I am using liver and for bone I got neck, rib and ox tail. All bones/liver are beef as well.

*my 1st question... is after 2 weeks I can start another meat. Should I just add one other meat or can I start adding all different kinds? So next should I go to 2 weeks of say pork or pork and beef or can I do multiple things like fish, lamb and pork with beef?

He is allergic to chicken(the rescue told me that when I got him) and I do plan on trying chicken down the road since I have read that some people have had no problems with their dogs eating raw chicken when they otherwise reacted to it in kibble.

*2nd question... is about weighing bone. Since bone has meat attached to it I am assuming there is no "exact" way to get the weight of just the bone. So if you have an oxtail that weighs 4 oz. Is that considered 4 oz of bone. My guess was no. So I guesstimated the weight of bone and considered the rest meat. I individually weighed organ, then bone, added the two together and then added meat for the remaining. it took me about an hour to measure out 14 days off food. I can only assume that as time goes on it will get easier...I am hoping I am right.

*third question...If you are feeding something like turkey neck, which I am guessing is more than 1.76 oz of bone and more than what is considered daily bone amount you still feed the whole neck, right? I realize it is more important to have the correct amount over a weeks time than say a day, but I am wondering how you manage to not have to much bone and too hard of poops if you give that much bone at once.

I can say that as of right now this raw feeding seems very daunting, scary and expensive. Once I can figure out what he likes and agrees with him I am hoping to get some good deals through co op's and pet carnivore.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:23 am

Well I managed to answer question#3 all on my own. Strange because I have been looking for like a week lol

Basically I guess I need to relax and not be so paranoid about weight so much....what I gathered from more reading tonight.

Now I just read(for the 1st time) that I shouldn't add organ meat for a month :eek: So should I take it out of the stuff I have measured and ready to feed for 2 weeks :dunno:

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:31 am

Lliver is VERY high in vitamin A and can cause toxicosis if over-fed. I would encourage you to find other organ meats as well to add to your mix. A 10% liver diet does not sound like a healthy plan to me...

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:03 am

I do a organ meal once a week, sometimes it's kidneys, liver, lungs, things like that. Start with one protein source, after a week or so, try another. For some reason, I always start with chicken...not sure why, but I do. I think it really depends on the dog, I like feeding fish during warm months, because it can be fed outside..it stinks, fish is something that is like a twice a week meal for my guys. Most people consider necks a boney meal. You can also add in other things like trachea, feet, great for the joints.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby Amie » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:50 am

Just to warn you, Oscar is allergic to beef in all forms - kibble, raw, even organs (which people try to tell me shouldn't happen). So be prepared in case Khan has the same reaction to chicken as he does in kibble form.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:52 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:Lliver is VERY high in vitamin A and can cause toxicosis if over-fed. I would encourage you to find other organ meats as well to add to your mix. A 10% liver diet does not sound like a healthy plan to me...


The 10% organ guideline is 1/2 of the liver and the 1/2 other organs depending on what folks can find.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:06 am

ok, rule #1: CHILL OUT! you've got bone weighed out to two decimal points. No one I know goes that far! That's buying you a ten ride pass on the crazy train if you try to do it that way.

Most beef bones are too big so the bones you bought are not edible. I actually don't feed any beef bones regularly and then only ribs. But that's just me. That being said, go ahead and let him work on the other bone-in pieces but keep an eye on him that he doesn't give up because they are too hard.

You want to go for balance over time! Look at your weekly numbers. After all, some days you eat a lot of bread and other days you are "good" and eat plenty of veggies.


Just to answer your questions:
#1 You can do either depending on how his body adjusts to the first 2 weeks. If everything is going well, feel free to add in a couple of new protein sources. If not, add in just one (plus your original).

#2 stop stressing on the bones weights. If you weigh out X amount of beef ribs and that's his meal amount for the day - then feed it. If he doesn't finish all of it, then feed an extra day of boney foods that week.

#3 just feed the neck. That much bone should not cause too hard of poops in your typical pit bull sized dog. Plus a hard poop every now and against won't hurt. Just give them plenty of time to poop quietly. Now, would I suggest feeding necks 3-4 days in a row. Probably not,

FBODGRL wrote:I posted in the RAW thread, but haven't got any answers.

I started feeding Khan NV premade RAW for 1 meal a few weeks ago. A few days ago we went to every meal. Tomorrow we are starting full RAW. I am doing prey model (I think) 80/10/10. I am starting him with beef for 2 weeks, as it is recommended to do 1 protein for 2 weeks to start. For the muscle meat I got stew meat, ground beef and roast. For organ I am using liver and for bone I got neck, rib and ox tail. All bones/liver are beef as well.

*my 1st question... is after 2 weeks I can start another meat. Should I just add one other meat or can I start adding all different kinds? So next should I go to 2 weeks of say pork or pork and beef or can I do multiple things like fish, lamb and pork with beef?

He is allergic to chicken(the rescue told me that when I got him) and I do plan on trying chicken down the road since I have read that some people have had no problems with their dogs eating raw chicken when they otherwise reacted to it in kibble.

*2nd question... is about weighing bone. Since bone has meat attached to it I am assuming there is no "exact" way to get the weight of just the bone. So if you have an oxtail that weighs 4 oz. Is that considered 4 oz of bone. My guess was no. So I guesstimated the weight of bone and considered the rest meat. I individually weighed organ, then bone, added the two together and then added meat for the remaining. it took me about an hour to measure out 14 days off food. I can only assume that as time goes on it will get easier...I am hoping I am right.

*third question...If you are feeding something like turkey neck, which I am guessing is more than 1.76 oz of bone and more than what is considered daily bone amount you still feed the whole neck, right? I realize it is more important to have the correct amount over a weeks time than say a day, but I am wondering how you manage to not have to much bone and too hard of poops if you give that much bone at once.

I can say that as of right now this raw feeding seems very daunting, scary and expensive. Once I can figure out what he likes and agrees with him I am hoping to get some good deals through co op's and pet carnivore.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:59 pm

I fed his first meal this morning and all went well. He ate everything fine and chewed the bone. No poop yet. We'll see how that is.

Misskiwi67 wrote:Lliver is VERY high in vitamin A and can cause toxicosis if over-fed. I would encourage you to find other organ meats as well to add to your mix. A 10% liver diet does not sound like a healthy plan to me...


As I said I am looking for information for the first 2 weeks. I know I need to feed other organs and I never said I intended to feed liver only all the time. It is supposed to be 5 % liver 5 % other organs.

Amie wrote:Just to warn you, Oscar is allergic to beef in all forms - kibble, raw, even organs (which people try to tell me shouldn't happen). So be prepared in case Khan has the same reaction to chicken as he does in kibble form.


He has had beef before cooked and has had beef bones and never had a reaction.

ProudMommy77 wrote:I do a organ meal once a week, sometimes it's kidneys, liver, lungs, things like that. Start with one protein source, after a week or so, try another. For some reason, I always start with chicken...not sure why, but I do. I think it really depends on the dog, I like feeding fish during warm months, because it can be fed outside..it stinks, fish is something that is like a twice a week meal for my guys. Most people consider necks a boney meal. You can also add in other things like trachea, feet, great for the joints.


Thanks!

FransterDoo wrote:ok, rule #1: CHILL OUT! you've got bone weighed out to two decimal points. No one I know goes that far! That's buying you a ten ride pass on the crazy train if you try to do it that way.

Most beef bones are too big so the bones you bought are not edible. I actually don't feed any beef bones regularly and then only ribs. But that's just me. That being said, go ahead and let him work on the other bone-in pieces but keep an eye on him that he doesn't give up because they are too hard.

You want to go for balance over time! Look at your weekly numbers. After all, some days you eat a lot of bread and other days you are "good" and eat plenty of veggies.


Just to answer your questions:
#1 You can do either depending on how his body adjusts to the first 2 weeks. If everything is going well, feel free to add in a couple of new protein sources. If not, add in just one (plus your original).

#2 stop stressing on the bones weights. If you weigh out X amount of beef ribs and that's his meal amount for the day - then feed it. If he doesn't finish all of it, then feed an extra day of boney foods that week.

#3 just feed the neck. That much bone should not cause too hard of poops in your typical pit bull sized dog. Plus a hard poop every now and against won't hurt. Just give them plenty of time to poop quietly. Now, would I suggest feeding necks 3-4 days in a row. Probably not,


lmao about the crazy train roflmao That was kind of how I felt!!!

The bones were cut into smaller pieces, so I thought it would be ok. For example the ox tail is like a 2 or 3" segments. The ribs are actually individual, and the neck is in slices that are about and inch-2 thick. Is that bad? They are too hard to chew or eat? He chewed and ate a rib bone this morning is that ok?

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:17 pm

Mine can all do beef ribs, so sure!

How is he eating? I'd suggest going through the ribs bones before trying the oxtail or the neck bones.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:20 pm

Not sure what you mean...but he is eating fine :dunno: He ate both breakfast and dinner good with no hesitation. He ate the ribs good too. He was puzzled at first. Then chewed the bone and ate it no problem.

He pooped this afternoon. Normal firm poop. Not to hard and not runny.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby Amie » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:41 pm

FBODGRL wrote:
Amie wrote:Just to warn you, Oscar is allergic to beef in all forms - kibble, raw, even organs (which people try to tell me shouldn't happen). So be prepared in case Khan has the same reaction to chicken as he does in kibble form.


He has had beef before cooked and has had beef bones and never had a reaction.


I was referring to your statement that you were going to try feeding him chicken when he's had a history of chicken allergies in the past - just wanted you to be prepared for allergic reaction (and hope they don't happen!) since Oscar is allergic to beef in both processed and raw forms.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:24 pm

FBODGRL wrote:Not sure what you mean...but he is eating fine :dunno: He ate both breakfast and dinner good with no hesitation. He ate the ribs good too. He was puzzled at first. Then chewed the bone and ate it no problem.

He pooped this afternoon. Normal firm poop. Not to hard and not runny.


Well if he was trying to swallow the ribs whole then you might want to watch him with anything easier to eat. Hank is very rarely challenged by a meal so we have to make sure he chews his food up before swallowing.

Sounds like you are both on the right track! Welcome to the dark side! bwahahahah!

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:23 am

Amie wrote:
FBODGRL wrote:
Amie wrote:Just to warn you, Oscar is allergic to beef in all forms - kibble, raw, even organs (which people try to tell me shouldn't happen). So be prepared in case Khan has the same reaction to chicken as he does in kibble form.


He has had beef before cooked and has had beef bones and never had a reaction.


I was referring to your statement that you were going to try feeding him chicken when he's had a history of chicken allergies in the past - just wanted you to be prepared for allergic reaction (and hope they don't happen!) since Oscar is allergic to beef in both processed and raw forms.


Ahh I get it :)

FransterDoo wrote:
FBODGRL wrote:Not sure what you mean...but he is eating fine :dunno: He ate both breakfast and dinner good with no hesitation. He ate the ribs good too. He was puzzled at first. Then chewed the bone and ate it no problem.

He pooped this afternoon. Normal firm poop. Not to hard and not runny.


Well if he was trying to swallow the ribs whole then you might want to watch him with anything easier to eat. Hank is very rarely challenged by a meal so we have to make sure he chews his food up before swallowing.

Sounds like you are both on the right track! Welcome to the dark side! bwahahahah!


Thanks! I'm really hoping this helps him too.

Ok. He threw up a little bile with some very small pieces of bone. I still feed him after (hours later) Should I have?

Is this just his body adjusting?

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FransterDoo » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:40 am

Yes, a bile barf with or without the bones bits mean that his tummy is empty. It could have also worked on those bones bits overnight and decided that they were going to digest enough so up they came.

Just go ahead and feed him to get something in his tummy.

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Re: RAW feeding couple questions

Postby FBODGRL » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:19 pm

FransterDoo wrote:Yes, a bile barf with or without the bones bits mean that his tummy is empty. It could have also worked on those bones bits overnight and decided that they were going to digest enough so up they came.

Just go ahead and feed him to get something in his tummy.



Ok. Is there something I can do to avoid that happening? Is it something that will continue to happen? He never had any issues from empty tummy on kibble(I know some dogs do vomit even on kibble if they aren't fed frequent enough)

Sorry I am asking so many questions!


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