TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
User avatar
lilangel
Bully Lover 4 Life
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:43 pm
Location: utopia

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby lilangel » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:14 pm

Red wrote:
lilangel wrote:Those of you who have successful TPLO stories, please tell them here. A successful TPLO story would entail only one leg blowing and a dog returning to a pain free highly active lifestyle, not a dog who is more or less still in constant pain or otherwise crippled. I know of no dogs, personally, who have made a full recovery after TPLO with no subsequent bilateral CCL compromise.


I'll never be done probably, but you know what I mean.I can take some videos of her moving or dragging light weights if you'd like, so you can see her range of motion, but you are probably looking for example of dogs doing sports only.

Just for fun, here is Ice being given a "new knee":

Image


Oh, I would would love to see video of Ice. I really only made the TPLO-sports reference because that is what I have heard the most: that a TPLO can return a sporting dog back to competition very quickly. I just have not seen this happen so I question the marketing boasts of such an expensive and invasive procedure. If it is only going to allow a dog to sort of run around or play as much as any other procedure or a brace that costs about 1/10 the amount of the TPLO then I think people should know that and not expect more than is realistic. Know what I mean? :dunno: I guess it just seems that people talk of a TPLO like it is just a simple surgery that will make the knee pain free and "all better" by eliminating the need of a CCL altogether when it really depends on the surgeon, the dog and the rehab and the actual extent of the injury. For example, if the meniscus is intact as most are when caught early enough then is total knee reconstruction a worthwhile procedure or is a suturing procedure which costs $300-$400 going to give you the same results? While atrophy of the leg musculature is always an issue with extended recovery times of a suturing procedure, there are therapies and various apparatus to mitigate this side-effect. The APBTs I have seen with extreme CCL injury do not seem to be in any extraordinary pain. They do not guard the leg on palpation or exhibit any outward indications of pain, even when drawer movement is manipulated. Is that due to their stoic nature? Not that I have seen. Stoic or not, one can see signs of pain in these dogs. They do not use the leg because it is unstable, not painful perse. It seems that the knee is much more painful after surgeries for the rest of the dog's life. :dunno:

User avatar
Flibgit
Matured Bully
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby Flibgit » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:04 pm

Our previous dogue had TPLO done on both his knees. The first when he was about 3 years old and the 2nd at about 6 years old. The second recovery seemed a bit harder on him, but nothing terrible. His knees weren't more painful after the TPLO and while he only lived to be 8 years old, there wasn't any sign of pain in either knee at that time.

We chose the TPLO because it was really the only option at the time. They told us straight away that the suture repair would never hold up and they only recommend it for dogs under 50 pounds.

As for both knees going out, I think a good portion of it is due to the physical make-up of the dog. Dozer didn't favor his 1st knee so that didn't cause the 2nd one to rupture. However, if the first ligament tore due to the formation (the angle which the femur and the tibia meet) of his knee, the 2nd one was very close to the same angle. (I'm not sure that made any sense at all)

User avatar
kaytenmags
Pit Bull Forum Addict
Posts: 1905
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:28 pm
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby kaytenmags » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:25 pm

lilangel wrote:If it is only going to allow a dog to sort of run around or play as much as any other procedure or a brace that costs about 1/10 the amount of the TPLO then I think people should know that and not expect more than is realistic.

i thought i read in another post that you said the brace cost about $700? (i can't find the post now, but i remember reading it because it sounded like an interesting option!). if the brace cost $700, that's hardly 1/10th of the price. maggie's TPLO (including meds, overnight stay at the vets, etc) was about $4k, not $7k.

lilangel wrote:For example, if the meniscus is intact as most are when caught early enough then is total knee reconstruction a worthwhile procedure or is a suturing procedure which costs $300-$400 going to give you the same results?

up here, the 'traditional' repair was going to cost me $1000-1200

lilangel wrote:The APBTs I have seen with extreme CCL injury do not seem to be in any extraordinary pain. They do not guard the leg on palpation or exhibit any outward indications of pain, even when drawer movement is manipulated. Is that due to their stoic nature? Not that I have seen. Stoic or not, one can see signs of pain in these dogs.

i disagree. these dogs hide a LOT of pain. i've heard of dogs in the local shelters that have been running, jumping, and pulling on leash, but when an x-ray is taken the dog has a shattered hip, or extreme dysplacia. that's not discomfort, that's pain.
when my dog blew her 2nd knee, it was acute, and stopped her dead in her tracks. however, within 10 seconds she was running on three legs wondering why i wanted to leave the park. when she tore her first one, the vets figured it was a partial tear because there was intermittant limping. when surgery was done, it was found to be a full tear. it's amazing how stoic these dogs can be.

TPLO surgery may not be the be-all and end-all, but it was the option that i was recommended by three vets, and i'm glad i chose it.

User avatar
lilangel
Bully Lover 4 Life
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:43 pm
Location: utopia

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby lilangel » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:55 pm

Flibgit wrote:Our previous dogue had TPLO done on both his knees. The first when he was about 3 years old and the 2nd at about 6 years old. The second recovery seemed a bit harder on him, but nothing terrible. His knees weren't more painful after the TPLO and while he only lived to be 8 years old, there wasn't any sign of pain in either knee at that time.

We chose the TPLO because it was really the only option at the time. They told us straight away that the suture repair would never hold up and they only recommend it for dogs under 50 pounds.

As for both knees going out, I think a good portion of it is due to the physical make-up of the dog. Dozer didn't favor his 1st knee so that didn't cause the 2nd one to rupture. However, if the first ligament tore due to the formation (the angle which the femur and the tibia meet) of his knee, the 2nd one was very close to the same angle. (I'm not sure that made any sense at all)


Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Kaytenmags, don't get all defensive. I'm not questioning your decision to get TPLO. I'm glad it worked out for you and your dog for the most part. Since you asked, the cost of the brace itself was between $400-$500 but we paid more for expeditious shipping halfway across the country more than 4 times. It could have cost significantly less, but I think you and everyone else can see my point, regardless. Additionally, the brace does no harm to the knee, allows for immediate weight bearing on the leg and allows for limited natural movement and allowing the body to build natural scar tissue. It also can work for a dog of any weight which is a huge benefit and something that should definitely be taken into consideration.

I am not a spokesperson for dog orthopedic braces of america or anything, although it may seem like it this week :). I am just sharing what I know of them and things that I have researched outside of my own experience that some vets and the knee repair establishment in general conveniently neglect to discuss with would be patients. $1200 for a traditional suture repair? Sounds very steep. :dunno: The whole surgery takes 40 minutes from the time the dog goes down and is outpatient. I held my dog while she went under, carried her to the table and held her as she was intubated and then read a national geographic while I waited for her to get sewn up and then drove her home after we tugged on her tongue for a few minutes to make sure she was waking up. Maybe our vet is just John Blaze or likes me. : dunno: Recovery was like molasses in winter.

Anyone that knows their dog can see when the dog is in pain, I don't care how stoic the dog. someone else probaly can't tell, but the owner sure as hell can tell. :shakeit:

User avatar
BabyReba
Moderator
Posts: 11589
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:21 pm
Location: Winter Park, Florida
Contact:

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby BabyReba » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:11 pm

The cost of traditional repair down this way has been quoted to me at between $1,000 and $1,400 ... meanwhile, up in Baltimore, my old vet did those for $750 per knee. He wouldn't do it on a dog over 35 pounds though, said it was a waste of time. Now I regret not pushing to find a surgery up there though, through another vet!

User avatar
Savage Destiny
Bully Ambassador
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:04 am
Location: Bend, OR
Contact:

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby Savage Destiny » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:04 pm

lilangel wrote:Point taken, rehab is very important but we are not talking about a perfect reality here where everything goes as it should and all dogs recover well and owners follow rehab protocols. Size must also be taken into account. A larger dog will always have more chance of complications throughout the life of the dog and a worse prognosis for recovery. As for the 3 legged dogs, I think that they compensate differently than a dog with 4 legs. Since up to 60% of the dog's weight can be supported by the front legs if all legs are present and in use, there is going to be more weight on the back end, whereas with 3 legs the single rear leg is going to be taking as little weight as the dog needs to use. Mobility is necessarily reduced as well compared to a dog with one bad rear leg.


Riddle's recovery was far from a perfect reality. lol She came out of surgery walking on the leg like it was four weeks healed, not favoring it whatsoever, which pretty well horrified the staff. They told me she COULD not be walking on it- tell HER that. I had to buy a sling sort of thing to lift up her rear end so she'd only walk on her front feet when she went out to potty. She still developed a fluid pocket because she wouldn't lie down- even in her crate it was constant "Riddle DOWN" and then she'd pop back up five minutes later and turn circles in her crate. :po: So the staples wouldn't heal because of the fluid pocket, she had them four weeks instead of two and we ended up having to bandage the entire leg to get the skin pushed together for healing. Finally we got the staples out and ended up in the e-vet at midnight because the fluid had nowhere to go and needed to be drained. Did I mention that she go an infection in the incision because it was open so long and had to be on two different types of antibiotics?

She was also fat when she had her surgery. lol At surgery time, she was 68lbs. She's now 55 and a good weight.

User avatar
kaytenmags
Pit Bull Forum Addict
Posts: 1905
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:28 pm
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby kaytenmags » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:59 pm

lilangel wrote:Kaytenmags, don't get all defensive. I'm not questioning your decision to get TPLO. I'm glad it worked out for you and your dog for the most part. Since you asked, the cost of the brace itself was between $400-$500 but we paid more for expeditious shipping halfway across the country more than 4 times. It could have cost significantly less, but I think you and everyone else can see my point, regardless. Additionally, the brace does no harm to the knee, allows for immediate weight bearing on the leg and allows for limited natural movement and allowing the body to build natural scar tissue. It also can work for a dog of any weight which is a huge benefit and something that should definitely be taken into consideration.

i'm not being defensive, i just come across as a bit of a bitch when i type. acctually, it could be just that i'm a bit of a bitch ;) lol

i hear a lot of people talking about how drastic and expensive TPLO is, but quite often it's exaggerated. vet costs are quite high around here, and $1200 is not unreasonable for a traditional surgery. faced with that vs a $4k surgery, i opted for the pricier version based on durability. i didn't want to have to re-do it, and her right (first) knee is absolutely 100% back to normal.

with the brace, is it a temporary thing just to build up stability, or is it something the dog will wear for the rest of forever? have you had any problems/quirks with it at all? i'm curious because i'm around a lot of broken dogs (at physio, vets, pool, etc) and some of those dogs are too old/frail/whatever and can't get surgery done. a brace may be a viable suggestion to pass on!

User avatar
mtlu
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 5843
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:32 pm
Location: san francisco

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby mtlu » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:56 am

I noted Molly's approximate age at the time of her surgery (about 3 ys old) in my earlier reply but didn't further elaborate – amongst the various considerations was her age and energy level. It seemed to make the most sense to me to go for a fairly permanent surgery for Molly when factoring that in. If she were older and less active, I may not have chosen a repair as drastic as the TPLO. We spent quite a bit of time weighing her quality of life in addition to our finances.

User avatar
elegy
Bully Ambassador
Posts: 2277
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:49 am
Location: PA
Contact:

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby elegy » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:44 pm

i'm one of those people who doesn't believe that blowing the second knee has much to do with offloading. so few cruciate ruptures seem to be the result of a specific accident (and those that are tend to be the dogs who only ever blow one) but rather the result of normal dog activity. imo, whatever's causing the first one to go is causing the second one.

luce had a traditional repair on her first knee and a TTA on her second and from my experiences with her surgeries, i would never choose a traditional repair for a young, active dog again (i'd consider it for an older, less active dog or for a small dog). her TTA recover was so much faster, and that knee is *so* much better than her fishingline knee. both were done by veterinarians who only do surgery (the traditional one by an unboarded surgeon at a specialty practice, the second by a boarded surgeon at her own practice) so i don't think the results have anything to do with surgeon skill.

User avatar
Odnarb
Moderator
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Northwest Iowa
Contact:

Re: TPLO SUCCESS STORIES

Postby Odnarb » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:05 am

The first two clinics that I worked at would do the extracapsular technique on dogs in house and refer out the TPLOs.The third clinic I worked at had a traveling surgeon that would come in and do TPLOs, and the clinic owner would perform extracapsular repairs. Small dogs seemed to do fine after extracapsular repair, bigger dogs not so much. The dogs getting TPLOs were mostly successful, but with a few exceptions.

I saw two different types of dogs needing repair. You have the well structured dog that tears it from a true trauma, and the overweight and/or poorly structured dog (straight in the rear and/or steeply-sloped tibial plateau) that tears it often without a known traumatic incident. As would be expected, the well built dogs did better after the surgery, and the other group had longer recoveries and were more likely to tear in the other leg. FWIW, these observations were made over a period of about 13 years.


Return to “Health Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 16 guests