New rescued brat with severe skin issues

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Kahlie
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:19 pm

Just thought I'd update on the monkey's condition...

He finished his course of 3 wks of cephalexin and saw the vet, was prescribed another 3 weeks of it, as well as Vanectyl-P.
Being thick-headed, I brought him to another vet a week after (having not had him on anything in the interim) and she recommended going back on Clavamox for 3 wks, and no steroids. I had told her that I hadn't noticed any betterment on cephalexin...

In truth, I did notice that being off of antibiotics for a little over a week, there wasn't much change, though maybe (just maybe) a slight increase in swelling, but I couldn't be sure.

So, here we are, a week or so into Clavamox. He's doing better (I think) and gaining weight (I think). Pustules still keep coming.
What threw me for a loop yesterday, was that he got super itchy, and red, and (maybe) extra swollen, in the afternoon/evening. I have no idea if that sort of reaction is from a trigger that same day, hrs before, or something he came in contact or ingested a week prior. The only thing that changed within the past 48 hrs was that I had added white potatoes, sweet potatoes and carrots, boiled them a bit, then pureed that, and added it to the tripe I was feeding ...

That said, after two epsom salt soaks (which he normally likes, but these seemed to bother him a little), the swelling and redness subsided and he was fine this morning.

I also learned that he had a sister, and she suffered the same issues as he. Which even further makes me think demodex, but, all negative on scrapes....
(I really miss the head-to-wall emoticon!!)

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Misskiwi67
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:36 pm

Have you had any skin impression smears to look for bacteria or yeast infections, or just skin scrapes? Have you considered a skin biopsy or bacterial or fungal culture?

Why no steroids? It sounds like this dog is MISERABLE and declining steroids is denying him quality of life. Used temporarily and at appropriate doses steroids are quite safe and can make all the difference in the world.

Are you useing any medicated shampoos?

It just sounds to me like you're dumping dollars into antibiotics (clavamox is NOT cheap) and you aren't getting anywhere. Instead of throwing money away on antibiotics that aren't helping anymore, why not take the next steps diagnostically?

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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:39 am

He's seen the vet at the shelter, one the day I pulled him, one when I got back, and another at the same clinic, but different vet, and a recent (different) vet ....

None even recommended blood work - which anything I researched on pododermititis, suggested to do.

I had scrapes because that's the only thing ALL the vets seemed to have up their sleeves...Dunno why.

I've had Jasper (lymphoma boy) on Vanectyl-P, I don't mind it. The last vet who saw him said to hold off on it - and that it's very low dose anyway, and to try Benadryl instead...
I asked advice on here, as, if anyone recalls my rants of the past, I've had retardedly poor experience with vets (at the cost of many an animal). (Again, this is personal experience, no stab intended at the profession). I wanted to be armed with recommendation or direction to tell vets when I see them. After this many visits you'd think SOMEONE would say we should try a different course than continue antibiotics, since Jan 10th!!
(sorry, little flustered).

Biopsy was suggested, as a potential course, down the road. Why later, I don't know.
There was once where they took a Q tip and just dabbed the pads, and later confirmed on the slide that they found bacteria, which they said they'd suspected. That was it.

Also, no medicated shampoo. I've asked basically every vet he's seen as to what I can do topically. The responses ranged from nothing; to do Epsom salt soaks (and also DON'T do Epsom Salt soaks); to apply Vaseline, to DON'T apply Vaseline...
But no medicated shampoo, or anything for that matter.

The last vet was rather convinced it wasn't allergies. The two before her were adamant I do the elimination diet, as they were sure it was (there's also a skin specialist at that clinic who, apparently, is dying to see him, but he admonishes that elimination diet is key and he won't deal with you until you do that - for 6-8 wks minimum).

Hence my being here for advice :)

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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:04 am

Brain stopped working. I meant "insists on elimination diets" not admonish. Oy

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Misskiwi67
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:06 am

Are you doing an elimination diet? I agree this is a good idea, but it has to be done correctly.

Wow... I guess I wish you were closer. I usually do the minimum database ( don't miss the stupid stuff skin scrape etc.) and then hit the miserable guys with an entire pharmacy (antibiotics, steroids, multiple topicals), and then worry about figuring it out later. If it doesn't respond to therapy, I'd really be pushing for more diagnostics.

Jumping vets may be part of your problem... its hard to take the "next step" the first time you've seen the patient sometimes, unless you were specifically referred for that problem.

I think some vinegar soaks might do some good, pododermatitis almost always has a yeast component... but what I really think you need to find is a more aggressive vet.

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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:46 am

Thanks for the tips/advice. I'll try the vinegar as well.
He was doing ok on the diet but we had a few set backs so started anew.

It's winter here to boot still, so salt and snow are major issues. He doesnt get to do walks much. I've tried different methods to make-shift boots that fit, but not with much success.

Ill keep trucking along with current treatment and hope if gets us somewhere. I'll update soon as there is one.

Thanks again for the advice :)

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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:08 am

Instead of starting another thread, thought I'd just update this one.

Goofy Haplo's feet seem to just be at an impass. Not getting better, but not getting worse.
As a second-to-last resort, after he was done the antibiotics, I opted to try the Vanectyl-P... I thought I saw an improvement for the few days he had 3 tabs twice daily, but when I weaned him off to the lower doses (as prescribed), it seemed to go back to the same....
Occasionally, something sets him off - and it looks more red, and possibly more swollen.... I've not yet figured out the cause.

I want to do elimination diet more efficiently, but have yet to find a protein source he doesn't immediately react to, as well as something that will still put some good weight on him (and won't cost me an arm and a leg...)

On a positive note: He's going in for snip snip on April 13th!!!!! :nana: :nana: :yipee:
Can't wait.

I just hope the skin condition (that is also on his scrotum) won't be cause for concern.
He's realy good about not being a "typical boy dog", is uber friendly, tolerant of everyone, just..completely not the typical male. But, I'll be relieved when "they" are gone :)

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Update: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:37 pm

:crybaby: :crybaby:

Ok...
Biopsy came in (pretty quickly, considering it was just taken on the 13th)

Results: No mites. Just bacterial infection (this was a "duh" moment). Unknown underlying cause, presumed hard-to-diagnose allergies... They recommended to minimize "self-trauma" aka licking (2nd "duh" moment).

Haplo is a big boy, who's too skinny, he weighs 66lbs, and ought to likely weigh at least 70-75 lbs (maybe more?)
I've tried putting weight on, but while he's filled out some, on the scale he hasn't budged (actually, gone down some...)

Vet said there was nothing left, but possibly trying allergy testing; which, after asking how useful those even were (considering I didn't find them useful in diagnosing MY allergies), she said for food allergies, not very useful...
Either way, I may have to steroid the boy for life (and antibiotics apparently).

Misskiwi, did you say there was more diagnosis I can try? Besides bloodwork, scrapes, biopsy?

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AllisonPitbullLvr
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:18 pm

This sounds exactly like my friends dog who is a patient at the clinic where I work.

They have a 2 yr old Boerboel with the same issues you are describing. We referred him to a derm specialist and found he's severely allergic to things they can't possibly remove from his environment (dust mites, houseflies, several types of grasses, etc). He has been on chloramphenocol on and off for recurring MRSP infectionsm pred, cephalexin, etc. All gave him only temporary relief. They finally opted to spend the money on the allergy serum injections and are seeing really good results.

While testing is NOT very effective for food allergies, 90% of allergies are environmental anyways. If it was my dog, I would do the serum injections.

We have a boston terrier, a GSHP and a briard who have all been essentially "cured" of their allergies after taking them.

Good lcuk!

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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby Kahlie » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:08 pm

Off topic: Vets here nearly ran away from me in terror when I mentioned (heck, I showed them!) the chloramphenicol tabs...supposedly can/has caused deaths in humans? They asked if I was advised to use gloves when handling it (I wasn't), but...I laughed...They didn't.....

Anyways!

That's the first vote FOR allergy serums I'd heard, but I like the sounds of it... I'm definitely willing to try it, if it holds promise. Particularly as the alternative doesn't sound so great (round and round of antibiotics/steroids).

I guess I'd have to wait til his current round of antibiotics are done?

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IloveBlu
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby IloveBlu » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:59 pm

Blu had allergy testing on March 23 and we started his shots the next day. Honestly I do see some level of improvement. However I was told to wait 3-4 months to judge it truly. Some dogs may take a year.

My advice to you is to go to a dermatologist who does interdermal skin testing. It will be more expensive than blood testing, but well worth to have a more accurate reading by someone who does them regularly. My derm claims to have an 80% success rate with immunotherapy after one year.

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IloveBlu
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby IloveBlu » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:01 pm

Also, if you are having that much trouble kicking this infection, I think you need a culture/sensitivity test to see identify the bacteria that's growing. You may be giving him abx that his bacteria is resistant to (problem we had with Blu until we went to derm).

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AllisonPitbullLvr
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Re: New rescued brat with severe skin issues

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:09 pm

IloveBlu wrote:Blu had allergy testing on March 23 and we started his shots the next day. Honestly I do see some level of improvement. However I was told to wait 3-4 months to judge it truly. Some dogs may take a year.

My advice to you is to go to a dermatologist who does interdermal skin testing. It will be more expensive than blood testing, but well worth to have a more accurate reading by someone who does them regularly. My derm claims to have an 80% success rate with immunotherapy after one year.


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