Lower Protein Food ??

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Pibbles ATL
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Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Pibbles ATL » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:44 pm

We met with the behaviorist last night to work out Dexter's issues. One of her suggestions as part of our overall plan is to reduce the protein levels in his food. Right now he is eating TOTW High Prairie and The Honest Kitchen - Keen. I hate to just give him some low end garbage but I can't seem to find any lower protein level foods at the pet store I shop at. She recommended going under 21% crude protein. Does anyone know of any foods that are still good, but under 21%?

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Adrianne
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Adrianne » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance® Original Ultra® Reduced Calorie Formula for Dogs
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/RedCalDog.html

Many Cal Nat feeds are 21% but not lower that I know of.

I think Iams makes a low protein feed. I'm sure Science Diet does, I'm sure Royal Canin does as well.

I think a few others do as well, just look for "senior dog" food.
Some reading on low cal..http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/low-protein-dog-food.html

May I ask why she thinks the diet change will help his behavior?

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starrlamia
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby starrlamia » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:14 pm

Im curious as to why she would suggest lower protein too.
Some wellness formulas might be 21%, I cant think of any others.

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Pibbles ATL
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Pibbles ATL » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:51 pm

It won't necessarily change his behavior but she said there have been studies done where adolescent dogs with high protein diets showed the types of behaviors Dexter is showing. She also said there have been studies that showed that diet had no effect on behavior. We figured we'd switch up his food just to give it a try and see if we see any improvement. I kind of hate to change his food since I feel like lowering his protein level = giving him crap, but hey it won't kill him to change his food for a few months and we are desperate to do whatever we can to change his behavior.

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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:57 pm

I will second the natural balance formulas, but I can't think of any good foods that go below 21% protein that aren't prescription diets.

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Adrianne
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Adrianne » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:20 pm

Do you have a link to a thread or can you explain what his behaviors are that you're seeking to change via diet? I don't want to derail this thread if you don't want to and I have no expertise on the subject but I'm curious as I haven't really heard of this method before. I mean changing of diet helps human kids with attention disorders as well as other conditions so it may not be far fetched, I'd just love to see some reasoning and especially the studies on the subject.

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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby starrlamia » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:31 pm

Adrianne wrote:Do you have a link to a thread or can you explain what his behaviors are that you're seeking to change via diet? I don't want to derail this thread if you don't want to and I have no expertise on the subject but I'm curious as I haven't really heard of this method before. I mean changing of diet helps human kids with attention disorders as well as other conditions so it may not be far fetched, I'd just love to see some reasoning and especially the studies on the subject.

x2 I would be interested too! TBH higher protein diets will provide more energy, but moderate protein diets you would find in most decent foods under 30% i wouldnt think would cause that many issues... Sounds strange to me!

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Enigma
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Enigma » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:57 pm

My friend's Parson Russel Terrier was a bit off a couple of months ago, she had some out of the ordinary behavioural issues that started after she started eating a very high protein food. My friend took her to the vet and it turns out she had elavated liver enzymes, the vet suggested a lower protein food and the problem has gone away.

You don't have to feed the dog a lower quality food like Hills or Iams, there are quite a few higher quality foods that are still lower in protein. Canidae Platinum only has 20% protein, Artemis has 23% protein, Power of Nature Lamb has 21% protein, Petcurean Go! Salmon has 22% protein, etc. There are a lot of great choices! :thumbsup:

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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:08 pm

Enigma wrote:My friend's Parson Russel Terrier was a bit off a couple of months ago, she had some out of the ordinary behavioural issues that started after she started eating a very high protein food. My friend took her to the vet and it turns out she had elavated liver enzymes, the vet suggested a lower protein food and the problem has gone away.

You don't have to feed the dog a lower quality food like Hills or Iams, there are quite a few higher quality foods that are still lower in protein. Canidae Platinum only has 20% protein, Artemis has 23% protein, Power of Nature Lamb has 21% protein, Petcurean Go! Salmon has 22% protein, etc. There are a lot of great choices! :thumbsup:


:goodpost:

Had the EXACT same thing happen with my parents' beagle mix. We went so far as to test her bile acids because we were concerned about her having a PSS. Turns out, it was just her food.

Hate to say it, but all these diets that are super high in protein are too much for the average dog and studies in the near future will soon show that. [end psychic prediciton].

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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Misskiwi67 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:40 pm

AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:Hate to say it, but all these diets that are super high in protein are too much for the average dog and studies in the near future will soon show that. [end psychic prediciton].


Nothing psychic about it!!! I don't like foods that are higher than 35% protein. Performance studies on working dogs (sled dogs or greyhounds) have shown protein levels higher than 35% DECREASE performance... one more reason to read the dog, not the label.

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Enigma
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Enigma » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:45 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:one more reason to read the dog, not the label.
That's true, but there are still many dogs out there who do really well on high protein foods. It depends on the dog.

I do have a question... Which foods are considered high protein and which are considered low protein, where is that border between the two?

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Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Adrianne » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:57 pm

I had a hard time finding 35% protein, I find most are around 24-27%. I would imagine anything 30^ is high and 24down is low?

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lilangel
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby lilangel » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:03 pm

Basically,lower protein foods have an SSRI effect for dogs exhibiting a certain kind of aggression and/ or OCD, hyperactivity.

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Red
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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby Red » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:22 pm

To add to what Lilangel already said...diets that are high in carbohydrates can actually increase the tryptophan level available for serotonin synthesis (thryptophan, an aminoacid, is a precursor of serotonin). One study to look up could be the one done by DeNapoli, Dodman, Shusterm Rand and Gross (2000), in which was shown the relationship between reduced protein levels and some form of aggression. Probably the behaviorist Pibbles ATL saw suggested that the carbohydrate meal is given within two or three hours after the protein ingestion, because of how insuline operates in response to carbohydrate ingestion. Rice (whole grain possibly), sweet potatoes, barely or pats are definitely preferable to corn.

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Re: Lower Protein Food ??

Postby ams036 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:33 pm

A little OT but I currently feed my dogs Orijen 6 fish which is 38% crude protein. Is this too high and should I have their liver enzymes checked? They have had no signs of aggression triggered by the higher intake of protein, one is a complete lover that knows no enemy, and the other has always had dog reactivity issues, but nothing new since on this diet. They seem to do very well on this food, they have stellar coats, always clean bills of health at the vet, and are very active and fit. But I don't want to be overloading their bodies with protein if it is going to affect their overall health in the future either.


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