Another one for the RAW experts!

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
white0nr1ce
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Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Thu May 05, 2011 3:27 pm

After numerous searches within this forum and several of the other links you all have provided, I've still got a few questions and I'm really excited to start Apollo and Jewels on raw so... probably a little anxious. :aha:

1. Which fish do you believe to be the healthiest to feed your dog? Which fish do not supply those good good oils and which are at risk for the icky parasite... & your thoughts on wild caught or farm raised, please :pray

2. Is green tripe fed as a meal or an organ... if I were to make an organ mix would half tripe and half liver suffice until I build up my collection of gizzards or until other parts go on sale?

3. Are there any bones you would absolutely not feed because of the risk of breaking teeth? I know cow legs are out of the question... is a shank part of that? A femur? What exactly are soup bones and would they be a good choice? When looking for a marrow bone is it just "a marrow bone" or any other names?

4. I was going to try to get through with going strictly raw, but I see most of you tend to supplement in one way or another... will yogurt/cottage cheese help when I run into the infamous cannon but or maybe prevent it if I feed when introducing new proteins or organ meats? Would adding whole eggs/shells even out a meal with less bone?

5. Is it grape seed or grapefruit extract or oil that is supposed to help with parasites and other ickies... and if so how many of you actually use it and see a benefit? How much per pound do you give and how often?

6. During this "detox phase"... are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/diahrrea or are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/and EXPLOSIVE diahrrea to the point where my dogs that are house trained are going to ruin the carpet? :wow

I have read most everything that comes up in a search with "raw" "raw meaty bones" "green tripe" "salmon" "broken teeth" "wreck bones" and "tapass" in the health section from page one so I apologize for starting with a new post if any of these have already been answered... I may have been in zombie mode or skimming :oops:

Any advice is much appreciated! I am probably going to start stocking up now and plan to switch my doogies when they run out kibble within the next few weeks!

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby kaytenmags » Thu May 05, 2011 4:23 pm

white0nr1ce wrote:1. Which fish do you believe to be the healthiest to feed your dog? Which fish do not supply those good good oils and which are at risk for the icky parasite... & your thoughts on wild caught or farm raised, please :pray

i feed lake smelt, and salmon (frozen for a period of time first). i tried mackeral, it was a disaster. for some reason mackeral can't stay in my dogs stomach for more than 2 minutes. it goes down, comes up, goes down... well, you get the idea. i just bought some whole sardines recently, so we'll see how they do. i don't feed a ton of fish, but i do supplement with salmon oil. oh, and she also gets a spoonful of canned tuna in the morning, but that's not for any nutritional value, it's just to mix her meds in.

the parasite you need to watch out for is in west coast salmonoids (salmon & trout). east coast is fine, and the west coast is fine if it's commercially frozen, or in the deep freeze for a long time (i freeze mine for a season/year, but that's because i'm paranoid and have the freezer space)

white0nr1ce wrote:2. Is green tripe fed as a meal or an organ... if I were to make an organ mix would half tripe and half liver suffice until I build up my collection of gizzards or until other parts go on sale?

green tripe = meat, not organ
start SLOW with the organ. i'd suggest starting with no organ meat, waiting until the poops are good, then slowly (think tiny ammounts, the size of your fingernail) adding to the meals. build it up slow.

white0nr1ce wrote:3. Are there any bones you would absolutely not feed because of the risk of breaking teeth? I know cow legs are out of the question... is a shank part of that? A femur? What exactly are soup bones and would they be a good choice? When looking for a marrow bone is it just "a marrow bone" or any other names?

IMO it depends on your dog. cow legs/marrow/soup bones are extremely strong, and if you have a dog that likes to chew, they can easily break teeth. my dog's too lazy to chew these bones, so she just licks out the marrow.

white0nr1ce wrote:4. I was going to try to get through with going strictly raw, but I see most of you tend to supplement in one way or another... will yogurt/cottage cheese help when I run into the infamous cannon but or maybe prevent it if I feed when introducing new proteins or organ meats? Would adding whole eggs/shells even out a meal with less bone?

i don't supplement with anything other than salmon oil and a joint supplement (my dog is broken).
canned pumpkin (not pie filling) will help with the tapass.
eggs used to give my dog tapass. we worked up to them slowly.

white0nr1ce wrote:5. Is it grape seed or grapefruit extract or oil that is supposed to help with parasites and other ickies... and if so how many of you actually use it and see a benefit? How much per pound do you give and how often?

i'm no help here, i've never used it.

white0nr1ce wrote:6. During this "detox phase"... are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/diahrrea or are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/and EXPLOSIVE diahrrea to the point where my dogs that are house trained are going to ruin the carpet? :wow

my dog had pretty explosive tapass on and off for a week or two. probably my fault for not getting things right, although she's got a pretty sensitive stomach too.

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Fri May 06, 2011 9:22 am

kaytenmags wrote:i feed lake smelt, and salmon (frozen for a period of time first). i tried mackeral, it was a disaster. for some reason mackeral can't stay in my dogs stomach for more than 2 minutes. it goes down, comes up, goes down... well, you get the idea. i just bought some whole sardines recently, so we'll see how they do. i don't feed a ton of fish, but i do supplement with salmon oil. oh, and she also gets a spoonful of canned tuna in the morning, but that's not for any nutritional value, it's just to mix her meds in.

the parasite you need to watch out for is in west coast salmonoids (salmon & trout). east coast is fine, and the west coast is fine if it's commercially frozen, or in the deep freeze for a long time (i freeze mine for a season/year, but that's because i'm paranoid and have the freezer space)

We have an international grocery place that has fish upon fish and all are whole... nobody speaks any English and you point to what you want and the number 1 for the whole fish, 2 for whole fish descaled, 3 for no scales or heads, and so on down to a filet... I love that place and any excuse to go in, and a lot of it they catch themselves & I'm on the east coast... so that should be good! & I feel like I've heard that someone else's dog couldn't stand mackerel either... hm, maybe I'll skip that one. :brow:
kaytenmags wrote:IMO it depends on your dog. cow legs/marrow/soup bones are extremely strong, and if you have a dog that likes to chew, they can easily break teeth. my dog's too lazy to chew these bones, so she just licks out the marrow.

They have had the redbarn naturals pressed stuffed bones before and they lasted a long time before I threw them out because I was concerned for the size... do you think if they did okay with those they could deal with soup bones? The only one's they've really chomped through that scared me were smoked ham bones which I won't feed anymore, but their teeth are fine.
kaytenmags wrote:i don't supplement with anything other than salmon oil and a joint supplement (my dog is broken).
canned pumpkin (not pie filling) will help with the tapass.
eggs used to give my dog tapass. we worked up to them slowly.

Thanks for that info! Anything helping with the tapass is greatly appreciated. I'm being trusted with someone else's dog's diet and I explained the detox thing but I don't know if there's ever a time when diarrhea isn't a touchy subject. :fart:
kaytenmags wrote:i'm no help here, i've never used it.

& that is actually helpful... tells me at least one vote for it being unnecessary.
kaytenmags wrote:my dog had pretty explosive tapass on and off for a week or two. probably my fault for not getting things right, although she's got a pretty sensitive stomach too.

I'm trying to do as much research as possible... we've got a full house so not only do I get the joy of scrubbing the carpet... I get to do so with angry inlaws and curious kids looking down at me... and the boys gagging at the smell in the background :P Even though the boys (being my boyfriend and brother) have the most sensitive stomachs they still seem most supportive right now. If I want to keep that support in my own home I've got to do all I can to make the detox phase as easy as possible... If not for the probiotics, what do people supplement yogurt and cottage cheese for?

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby HappyPuppy » Fri May 06, 2011 10:31 am

[QUOTE:] After numerous searches within this forum and several of the other links you all have provided, I've still got a few questions and I'm really excited to start Apollo and Jewels on raw so... probably a little anxious.

It seems like you have done a lot of homework! Good questions. :thumbsup:

1. Which fish do you believe to be the healthiest to feed your dog? Which fish do not supply those good good oils and which are at risk for the icky parasite... & your thoughts on wild caught or farm raised, please

I'm not at the mental or financial point of picking farmed or wild for my dog, so I only buy what is cheapest. My preference (and I can't find it anymore) was whole (uncleaned) frozen mackeral! I also get whole (cleaned) tilapia but those spines are vicious, so I kill myself trying to cut them off so they don't puncture my dog. Then, I get canned sardines or canned mackeral - they are salty but I like to feed them on occasion (plus they keep forever). Fresh salmon and it's family are supposed to be bad with the 'flukes' (worms) but I don't have access to that - freezing for a month kills most parasites I think. Regardless of fish fed (I only feed it once a week), I'd add in salmon/fish oil.

2. Is green tripe fed as a meal or an organ... if I were to make an organ mix would half tripe and half liver suffice until I build up my collection of gizzards or until other parts go on sale?

I personally wouldn't feed only green tripe for a meal and I think tripe AND liver could be disastrous together. I'd feed tripe along with another meat at 50-50. I feed a half a can of tripe at a time - Before Grain brand makes for pretty stinky gas.

3. Are there any bones you would absolutely not feed because of the risk of breaking teeth? I know cow legs are out of the question... is a shank part of that? A femur? What exactly are soup bones and would they be a good choice? When looking for a marrow bone is it just "a marrow bone" or any other names?

I've personally backed off on recreational bones since Ruby's teeth are now worn down to flat little nubs. But I do have 2 'soup bones' in the freezer - the round ones with marrow in the middle. I have also bought pork neck bones but they seem too hard and make some scary crunching/popping sounds when Ruby eats them so I don't get them that often -- pork ribs are awesome, tho. Beef ribs are too hard and do not get consumed - I'll feed them on occasion tho if htey are on sale but they don't ahve that much meat on them. Ruby would save a bone to chew on for months.

4. I was going to try to get through with going strictly raw, but I see most of you tend to supplement in one way or another... will yogurt/cottage cheese help when I run into the infamous cannon but or maybe prevent it if I feed when introducing new proteins or organ meats? Would adding whole eggs/shells even out a meal with less bone?

We didn't really have transition-to-raw poop issues but I had started tossing in chicken legs and other things more and more initially. Some people believe in supplements and add-ons while others do not. I'll feed cottage cheese if I have it but I forget about eggs - prolly only do an egg once or twice a month but only because I forget. I treat egg shells as 'bone' - I save them up, grind them in a coffee grinder, and spoon out 3/4 to 1 tsp at a time. I would feed eggs a couple of times a week but not daily. Cottage cheese is great for gaining weight - so be careful. I just chuck on a tablespoon or two - sometimes 1/4 cup for calcium/protein.

5. Is it grape seed or grapefruit extract or oil that is supposed to help with parasites and other ickies... and if so how many of you actually use it and see a benefit? How much per pound do you give and how often?

I don't know about these oils/extracts - grape seeds (most fruit seeds) are toxic to dogs, tho in high doses.
6. During this "detox phase"... are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/diahrrea or are we talking bad breath/stinky poop/and EXPLOSIVE diahrrea to the point where my dogs that are house trained are going to ruin the carpet?

We didn't have any detox but I did transist slowly by adding more raw meats before we got seroius (but I also still feed kibble for breakfast - and raw for dinner.) Occasionally, even now, something will not agree and poop will be soft or worse - but that is not the norm and usually involves other snacks or treats.

Right now, we are mainly feeding just chicken and pork because I CANNOT find frickin beef @ a dollar a pound!! The kibble for breakfast is fish based and I do have some beef liver in the freezer but variety of meat protien and type of cut is key imho. I prefer to buy whole chickens and cut them up but when the price is right, I'll get a 10lb bag of chicken quarters.


I have read most everything that comes up in a search with "raw" "raw meaty bones" "green tripe" "salmon" "broken teeth" "wreck bones" and "tapass" in the health section from page one so I apologize for starting with a new post if any of these have already been answered... I may have been in zombie mode or skimming

Any advice is much appreciated! I am probably going to start stocking up now and plan to switch my doogies when they run out kibble within the next few weeks!

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Fri May 06, 2011 11:04 am

HappyPuppy wrote:It seems like you have done a lot of homework! Good questions. :thumbsup:


I'm trying to learn as much as I can, everybody here is so very helpful :bowdown:

HappyPuppy wrote:I'm not at the mental or financial point of picking farmed or wild for my dog, so I only buy what is cheapest. My preference (and I can't find it anymore) was whole (uncleaned) frozen mackeral! I also get whole (cleaned) tilapia but those spines are vicious, so I kill myself trying to cut them off so they don't puncture my dog. Then, I get canned sardines or canned mackeral - they are salty but I like to feed them on occasion (plus they keep forever). Fresh salmon and it's family are supposed to be bad with the 'flukes' (worms) but I don't have access to that - freezing for a month kills most parasites I think. Regardless of fish fed (I only feed it once a week), I'd add in salmon/fish oil.


For some reason on salmon kibble my guy has done fine but any and every price range and denomination I'm tried of salmon oil has either made him puke or given tapass. Tried reducing the amount, if it was in there and he didn't even notice it, his butthole did soon there after.

HappyPuppy wrote:I've personally backed off on recreational bones since Ruby's teeth are now worn down to flat little nubs. But I do have 2 'soup bones' in the freezer - the round ones with marrow in the middle. I have also bought pork neck bones but they seem too hard and make some scary crunching/popping sounds when Ruby eats them so I don't get them that often -- pork ribs are awesome, tho. Beef ribs are too hard and do not get consumed - I'll feed them on occasion tho if htey are on sale but they don't ahve that much meat on them. Ruby would save a bone to chew on for months.


Wow. What beef bones, if any, do you feed?

HappyPuppy wrote:I don't know about these oils/extracts - grape seeds (most fruit seeds) are toxic to dogs, tho in high doses.

I ran across that in the "What not to feed your dog" post, and it seemed like there were some differing opinions, i believe it may have been some sort of extract or oil that did not contain the toxin, or it was a very small amount. Just wanted weight out risks and benefits and see if there was a standard dose... or if I was completely mistaken and it was grapefruit :oops:

HappyPuppy wrote:Right now, we are mainly feeding just chicken and pork because I CANNOT find frickin beef @ a dollar a pound!!


I hear that! If you plan on/learn of boned beef cuts that are ideal for teeth and diet, or are cheap, please let me know!
Thank you for all of your help!

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby HappyPuppy » Fri May 06, 2011 12:33 pm

I can usually ONLY find hamburger at .99/lb and I'll buy 5-10 lbs of it. (tho I bought london broil once at like $1.50 in desperation - but I really only like to go over a dollar a pound for things like liver/heart/kidney/chicken feet - otherwise, I only buy when at a dollar OR LESS per lb.) I do have a half a pork head of the freezer and that was $1.50/lb) I'd love to afford oxtails but otherwise I don't really feed any beef bones to speak of. Just pork and chicken bones. I supplement beef, tho more expensively, with things like dried beef lungs and bully sticks.

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Sat May 07, 2011 8:18 am

HappyPuppy wrote:I can usually ONLY find hamburger at .99/lb and I'll buy 5-10 lbs of it. (tho I bought london broil once at like $1.50 in desperation - but I really only like to go over a dollar a pound for things like liver/heart/kidney/chicken feet - otherwise, I only buy when at a dollar OR LESS per lb.) I do have a half a pork head of the freezer and that was $1.50/lb) I'd love to afford oxtails but otherwise I don't really feed any beef bones to speak of. Just pork and chicken bones. I supplement beef, tho more expensively, with things like dried beef lungs and bully sticks.

Do you find it necessary to supplement anything for more regular poop when you feed boneless beef? Or do they balance out if they get a bonier meal another time in the day/week? What sort of beef is best to buy ground? As in 73%, 85%, 97% lean... I didn't know if the lean stuff is healthy for dogs in the same way it is for humans or if they need that fat...

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby HappyPuppy » Sat May 07, 2011 10:01 am

^ There are a lot of people here who really do it right and find all kinds of meats like ostrich, emu, buffalo, venison, rabbit (<I want to try rabbit someday) - so hopefully you will some experiences shared across the spectrum. Chicken (with bone) is my staple throughout the week - like 4 times a week (I try to get a kibble with a different major protein source than chicken to offset that as being so dominant in her diet). I then feed pork at least a day a week if not two and beef if I have it and then fish once a week. So a boneless beef day comes after a chicken with bone day usually. I also mix meat sources so I could have a 5oz chicken leg paired with 3-4 oz of hamburger. Otherwise, I chuck out 8 oz hamburger and call it a day. My general rule for my dog's weight is 8oz of boneless meat for a meal or 10oz if it has bone in it. I've been sticking to 8 oz lately with or without bone and Ruby is about a half pound to a pound thin-looking. My goal is to keep her trim, tho, but I am seeing all of her ribs right now and I'd rather see 4 or 5 of them. I weigh each meal serving as I freeze it up but a lot of veterans just eyeball it. I buy the cheapest hburg so it's probably the fattiest.

REgarding boneless - Ruby's anal glands leak sometimes (gag!) and if I feed too much non bone, it seems a bit more frequent (mtlu on here suggested it could also be exasperated by the fish oil caps that I feed - but I haven't experimented with that yet). Ruby's poop on hburg is generally just as good as on chicken thighs for the most part so I don't try to 'dry it up' that much.

I've looked into co-ops but with just one 45 lb dog it's not really worth it for me except for the variety offered - when I did look around, a LOT of their prices were $1.5-2 per lb and I can do better with simpler meats at ethnic markets. I am mournign the loss of the whole frozen mackeral (with guts) - that was neat!!!! I think I am offering enough variety with chicken (inc liver and heart), sometimes turkey (wings and necks are great), pork (inc liver, heart and kidney), beef (inc liver, heart and kidney) and fish esp since I feed TOTW for am feeding. I happen to ahve Costco size low fat cottage cheese. Since Ruby doesn't need to gain weight, I'll serve it up while I have it. You DO generally want the full fat for dogs tho in cottage cheese or hamburger as they process the fat like we do carbs, I think. I sometimes de-skin Ruby's chicken thighs, tho - out of human guilt LOL and I will trim overly fatty meat cuts as well but I don't cut out all of the fat by any means.

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby FBODGRL » Sat May 07, 2011 5:14 pm

Personally I wouldn't even mess with the ground beef. Ground is really not a preferable choice to most raw feeders. I mean I'll feed it if it is on super sale, but I don't look for it.

I saw something about pork necks...I actually feed pork necks quite often...like 2 or more times a week.

Slippery elm bark is great for explosive diarrhea as it calms the digestive tract naturally. I always have some on hand. I have had many clean up the carpet times since I switched (you can search for my threads by my user name, they are pretty recent as I switched in the fall) I think part of that is that I live alone, so if you have other people there to let the dogs out it is probably better/easier if they have stomach upset to not have accidents.

As far as supplements I only do fish oil/vitamin e (I have read many places that no matter how much fish you feed you more than likely should supplement because there is not enough of the omegas in the fish) I do a joint supplement(luxating patella) and a probiotic. I suggest you use probiotic in the beginning at least. And obviously as mentioned I use slippery elm as needed.

I did use yogurt and cottage cheese a little in the beginning for mixing with organ. I haven't for months, partly because I had to stop feeding organ for a bit and partly, because it is just a hassle and 1 more thing to do lol

I think I answered everything that applies to me...I don't feed tripe and don't know too much about it.

Oh...fish I haven't found too much affordable around me that is worth feeding. Wild caught is preferable, but I would feed farm caught...as long as it is not from China (as some of the frozen stuff is)

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Thu May 12, 2011 2:34 pm

And where do you find this magical magical remedy? :bowdown:

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby FBODGRL » Thu May 12, 2011 7:47 pm

white0nr1ce wrote:And where do you find this magical magical remedy? :bowdown:


The slippery elm bark?

You can get it at health food stores. They have it in capsule form and a powdered form.

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

FBODGRL wrote:I suggest you use probiotic in the beginning at least.



I found these chewable acidophilous tablets at the heritage market here... banana flavored... you would think thunderhead was getting bacon or something the way he goes crazy for em! :yipee:

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby BigBadPibbul » Sun May 29, 2011 9:58 am

We're Slippery Elm users, it's also great for external irritations, think rash, dry skin, bug bites. You just drop some in hot water and let it jell up and spread it on.

I learned the hard way about organ meats. I found beef kidneys and liver on sale and bought some for each dog, didn't think about it enough and gave them a little, well way too much of both with their usual dinner one night. Good lord the following few days were hell on all of us lol We've since learned quite a bit more about raw feeding lol

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby white0nr1ce » Tue May 31, 2011 7:51 am

BigBadPibbul wrote:We're Slippery Elm users, it's also great for external irritations, think rash, dry skin, bug bites. You just drop some in hot water and let it jell up and spread it on.

I learned the hard way about organ meats. I found beef kidneys and liver on sale and bought some for each dog, didn't think about it enough and gave them a little, well way too much of both with their usual dinner one night. Good lord the following few days were hell on all of us lol We've since learned quite a bit more about raw feeding lol


I read a whoooole lot and asked tonnnns of questions. When I heard when I screw up, I clean diarrhea I made sure to look it up. I was actually thinking since Jewels was older & has been on beneful until recently, then switched to purina, she would have a harsher detox... her coat looks great and she's an older girl but it sort of seems like her chest and shoulders are filling out more... like her weight is more where it's supposed to be, not that she's lost any drastic amount or anything... Apollo just turned one and has been on blue buffalo all his life and he is shedding like crazy and his breath STINKS. Funny
how that works out. roflmao Jewels is the one with the lead stomach, though... Apollo's poops are holding their shape now (amazing how excited I got over that fun fact!) so probably going to try some turkey next week. :thumbsup:

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Re: Another one for the RAW experts!

Postby BigBadPibbul » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:51 am

My guys adore turkey day lol we buy a whole turkey once a month and I'll cut it up for them. It's so much cheaper to buy the whole bird and cut it up than it is to buy chunks. Of course Turkey is one of those special dinners around here so it's more economical to buy one bird at a time, if you'll feed it more often than we do you might be able to find an awesome deal at a grocery warehouse on a bulk box :thumbsup:


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