Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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addieNmel
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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby addieNmel » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:57 am

SOunds like you're doing the right thing. When I first got Addie she was 7 weeks old. Being in the veterinary industry ( I'm a tech) without much personal research before .. I fed Iams for the first few months of Addies life. ( We are often told in the veterinary industy Iams, Science Diet and Royal canin are the top quality foods to feed). I then became super interested in both animal and human nutrition and did a LOT of research.

At first I thought raw people were crazy.. why the heck would you feed, or bother with raw meat? I thought - Sounded like a lot of work! But, I did switch Addie to Innova after a few months ( pre P&G buyout). While on iams, addie had a lot of skin problems, and you could tell her immune system wasnt functioning too well ( skin infections, demodex - very mild, but they were there) After several months on Innova, her skin cleared up, but there were minor other things, eyue goopies etc.

I did more research ( went to holistic veterinary seminars, CE credit classes, personal research) and switched Addie to Acana ( grain free) rotations with all of their flavors. I finally got convinced to start raw, probably only about 6 months ago.. still I dont do it completely, but I feel so much better substituting raw for a kibble meal here and there. Addies poops are so much smaller, she loves it, and her coat is super soft, even more so than on acana alone. Now I see what all those 'crazy' people were talking about! I still dont feel completely comfortable doing raw only.. but getting better the more I look into it. I use My Pet Carnivore for orders - they offer lots of parts, whole animals, and even ground whole that make feeding raw easier. If you live in the Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan/Indiana area you might want to look into it. Hare Today is another good place, but I havent used them yet.

Basically, I feel pets can survive on lower quality kibble, and if its all you can afford, dont feel bad, at least your pet is getting fed, and getting something. I dont want to 'bad mouth' anyone certainly. Although, I must say the 'bottom of the barrel' foods about the human equivelent of eating fast food every day - not many nutrients available, not eating what the body is designed to eat.. though it'll keep you alive, just not in the healthiest form. Dogs can utilize 60% carbs in their diet, but a balanced diet is best - carbs from different sources ( more bioavailable ones.. eg: sweet potato, not corn.. or at least not 5 types of corn - corn gluten, corn meal etc) is best if your dog doesnt have a problem with them. I beleive dogs do generally need to eat meat and do better on it, but carbs are OK too, this is one reason why I recommend a rotation diet..dogs are carnivores, but not obligate carnivores like cats.. they do best on a meat based diet, but can survive on a non meat based .. though doesnt mean its ideal.

As mentioned before, if you cant or dont want to do raw, a good quality kibble is great - I recommend: Acana, Orijen, Wellness / wellness core ( depending on your pets issue or non issue with grains) Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo wilderness, Natures variety ( raw and kibble) .. theres a lot of other good ones, too.

Hopefully it helps, I know I posted earlier, but figured I'd go into more detail ;)

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Absoulte
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Re: Natural Food vs.

Postby Absoulte » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:23 pm

Curly_07 wrote:You can buy the 40 lb bag for cheaper than that online...including the shipping. I do it that way sometimes because tons of places have sales. Just check the supplies section of the forum for posts on food deals. I normally buy my TOTW at my local holistic store and I pay $60 for the 40lb bag. Not sure why its so expensive where you are.

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Oh really? I'll have to check into the Wellness Core and Canidae Pure - they were both $70 for a 30 lb bag I believe.

starrlamia wrote:Acana is made by the same company as Orijen, so they could probably order some in for you. It's what i feed my dogs (or natural balance, need the LID formulas) when we run low on raw.


Yeah I will have to check and see unless they are going to charge me an arm and a leg which hopefully they won't!

Nichole wrote:My Sadie has always been a sensitive girl. Raw is the only diet I've had her on that agrees with her. Kibble made her really gassy and her poo was never firm. Even on orijen. But raw cut down on the gas immensely to the point it is not really noticeable and poo is firm. Shiny fur, beautiful teeth. The vet seemed surprised at her latest check up at how sparkly her mouth is. She's almost 3 now so she's young so that's not saying a huuuge amount for her teeth, but when I compare her to other staffies around her age, there is a big difference. Yellowish teeth and plaque build up already seen while Sadie's are pearly white.

I follow the 80 - 10 - 10 rule as well.

Image


Wow she is gorgeous I love her smile and her teeth look great!!! I think I would go with the 80-10-10 rule too.

buckaroo wrote:If you decide against raw, regularly feeding raw bones recreationally can give you the same dental benefits as an exclusively raw diet. I have a lab mix who is 11 years old and has been getting large cow femurs 1-4 times a week for years. He's never needed a dental and the vet raves about his teeth.


I would definitely do this - even if it is until I get comfortable (and have the storage space) for raw! As long as the bones are NOT cooked they are good right?

addieNmel wrote:SOunds like you're doing the right thing. When I first got Addie she was 7 weeks old. Being in the veterinary industry ( I'm a tech) without much personal research before .. I fed Iams for the first few months of Addies life. ( We are often told in the veterinary industy Iams, Science Diet and Royal canin are the top quality foods to feed). I then became super interested in both animal and human nutrition and did a LOT of research.

At first I thought raw people were crazy.. why the heck would you feed, or bother with raw meat? I thought - Sounded like a lot of work! But, I did switch Addie to Innova after a few months ( pre P&G buyout). While on iams, addie had a lot of skin problems, and you could tell her immune system wasnt functioning too well ( skin infections, demodex - very mild, but they were there) After several months on Innova, her skin cleared up, but there were minor other things, eyue goopies etc.

I did more research ( went to holistic veterinary seminars, CE credit classes, personal research) and switched Addie to Acana ( grain free) rotations with all of their flavors. I finally got convinced to start raw, probably only about 6 months ago.. still I dont do it completely, but I feel so much better substituting raw for a kibble meal here and there. Addies poops are so much smaller, she loves it, and her coat is super soft, even more so than on acana alone. Now I see what all those 'crazy' people were talking about! I still dont feel completely comfortable doing raw only.. but getting better the more I look into it. I use My Pet Carnivore for orders - they offer lots of parts, whole animals, and even ground whole that make feeding raw easier. If you live in the Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan/Indiana area you might want to look into it. Hare Today is another good place, but I havent used them yet.

Basically, I feel pets can survive on lower quality kibble, and if its all you can afford, dont feel bad, at least your pet is getting fed, and getting something. I dont want to 'bad mouth' anyone certainly. Although, I must say the 'bottom of the barrel' foods about the human equivelent of eating fast food every day - not many nutrients available, not eating what the body is designed to eat.. though it'll keep you alive, just not in the healthiest form. Dogs can utilize 60% carbs in their diet, but a balanced diet is best - carbs from different sources ( more bioavailable ones.. eg: sweet potato, not corn.. or at least not 5 types of corn - corn gluten, corn meal etc) is best if your dog doesnt have a problem with them. I beleive dogs do generally need to eat meat and do better on it, but carbs are OK too, this is one reason why I recommend a rotation diet..dogs are carnivores, but not obligate carnivores like cats.. they do best on a meat based diet, but can survive on a non meat based .. though doesnt mean its ideal.

As mentioned before, if you cant or dont want to do raw, a good quality kibble is great - I recommend: Acana, Orijen, Wellness / wellness core ( depending on your pets issue or non issue with grains) Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo wilderness, Natures variety ( raw and kibble) .. theres a lot of other good ones, too.

Hopefully it helps, I know I posted earlier, but figured I'd go into more detail ;)


I think this is the approach I will take for a while - throwing in some raw meals here and there. When I start to see the benefits like you do from feeding raw I will probably be pushed to switch completely over to it. How often would you add in the sweet potato? Like throw it in with the raw 2x a week? By rotation do you mean switching meat every week (I have heard/read a lot of chicken one week, beef the next, fish the next etc.)? I read so many different ways of feeding raw!

I do want to switch to a better kibble - I tried Nature's Variety he did good on it but he is much healthier on the SD - he had dried nails, skin, hair etc. when eating Nature's Variety. I am going to see how much I can get food online for and if the Pet Store can't get me Acana in for about the same as the TOTW I will probably go with the TOTW. I hate all of this varying information! :eek:

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Curly_07 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:26 pm

I actually just picked up a 30 lb bag of TOTW last night for $40. If I were you I'd look into ordering online since the prices seem jacked up where you are. You'd save $...

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby FBODGRL » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:12 am

Check here...http://www.petflow.com/invite/uu4952810

This is where I order my cats food from. Great prices, cheap delivery and I have never had any issues with them.

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addieNmel
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Re: Natural Food vs.

Postby addieNmel » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:15 am

Absoulte wrote:I think this is the approach I will take for a while - throwing in some raw meals here and there. When I start to see the benefits like you do from feeding raw I will probably be pushed to switch completely over to it. How often would you add in the sweet potato? Like throw it in with the raw 2x a week? By rotation do you mean switching meat every week (I have heard/read a lot of chicken one week, beef the next, fish the next etc.)? I read so many different ways of feeding raw!

I do want to switch to a better kibble - I tried Nature's Variety he did good on it but he is much healthier on the SD - he had dried nails, skin, hair etc. when eating Nature's Variety. I am going to see how much I can get food online for and if the Pet Store can't get me Acana in for about the same as the TOTW I will probably go with the TOTW. I hate all of this varying information! :eek:


I'll let one of the completely raw feeders jump into more detail here.. even after much research I'm not completely comfortable doing raw completely. You can suppliment as often as you like. I throw addie an occasional carrot, egg, sweet potato etc a few times a week. You'll get varying reports on whats OK ( prey model raw people will tell you its not needed) - theres no right or wrong answer which makes it hard.. hense why I just suppliment the occasional meal. I buy several protein sources from MPC and rotate them once a week ( I only feed her a few raw meals a week). I think starting out raw, Ive heard stick with one protein source ( chicken etc) for at least several weeks, then start rotating.

A great kibble is certainly a way to go, too. Natures Variety, Acana and TOTW are all great foods. I think as long as it is a decent quailty kibble you dont have to do raw at all. I just decided to dabble in it. I was saying I rotate kibble flavors every few months as well.Adding raw makes me feel better, but you dont HAVE to do it by all means. I didnt for the longest time. My cats just eat kibble, they wont eat raw.

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Absoulte » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:33 pm

Wow! :wow Petflow is AMAZING they offer the Wellness Core at $20 less per bag than the Pet Store! I will definitely be ordering from them.

I think will probably do what you suggested AddieNMel, with feeding kibble (at least for a while if not forever). I want to be completely knowledgeable in the subject and that will take me a long time. LOL

Now that I have discovered Pet Flow I can basically get whatever food I want because they are SO much cheaper than the Pet Store! Wow! :wow

They are a small family owned pet store with probably 100 variaties so I imagine they cannot order in bulk and are more expensive. Not to mention the fact they portray themselves as an "eatery" (ei. their old name of ____ Food & Supply was not good enough).

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby FBODGRL » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:50 pm

Absoulte wrote:Wow! :wow Petflow is AMAZING they offer the Wellness Core at $20 less per bag than the Pet Store! I will definitely be ordering from them.

I think will probably do what you suggested AddieNMel, with feeding kibble (at least for a while if not forever). I want to be completely knowledgeable in the subject and that will take me a long time. LOL

Now that I have discovered Pet Flow I can basically get whatever food I want because they are SO much cheaper than the Pet Store! Wow! :wow

They are a small family owned pet store with probably 100 variaties so I imagine they cannot order in bulk and are more expensive. Not to mention the fact they portray themselves as an "eatery" (ei. their old name of ____ Food & Supply was not good enough).


Yeah they are great! If you sign up for the delivery schedule you also don't even have to worry about ordering. They automatically ship it on the date you pick. I started ordering the cats food online a while back and tried a few places. Out of those petflow has the best prices and service by far. It is also nice I don't have to go to the store for their food. Since Khan eats raw I really only have the cats to get food for as I also have to order the chinchillas food online. If you use the link I posted I get credit for referring you too ;)

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Absoulte » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:01 pm

FBODGRL wrote:Yeah they are great! If you sign up for the delivery schedule you also don't even have to worry about ordering. They automatically ship it on the date you pick. I started ordering the cats food online a while back and tried a few places. Out of those petflow has the best prices and service by far. It is also nice I don't have to go to the store for their food. Since Khan eats raw I really only have the cats to get food for as I also have to order the chinchillas food online. If you use the link I posted I get credit for referring you too ;)


I'll definitely use your link! :) They are great their customer service has been awesome so far! :)

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Absoulte » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:51 am

So I have another question - before deciding on a food what about protein levels? I have read a lot of people having issues with kidney levels being super high on higher protein foods. Wellness Core, TOTW, Canidae Pure are the ones I was thinking about. I was also looking at Great Life.

Exercise wise - all he gets is walked. Right now it is at 1 time a day for about 45 minutes - 1 hour but we are working on fitting a morning walk in their too which would bring it to 1.5 hours.

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Absoulte » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:09 pm

I have also been reading a lot about Orijen and Acana or however you spell it.

I am honestly open to look at any and all foods - just want the best for the spoiled little brat. 8)

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby addieNmel » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:28 pm

I've been told by a board certified veterinary nutritionalist, as well as a holistic veterinarian, and done countless research that higher protein foods do not cause kidney disease. If a pet does have kidney problems its best to have on a lower protein ( but highly digestable form) diet.. normal pets it doesnt matter much.

I did read a study, by iams mind you though.. that pets eating a diet of over 30% protein are much less likely to suffer an injury while working/playing etc. Their study also included dogs fed 20% protein and under 20% protein, both of the lower protein food groups suffered some injuries. Active dogs would probably do best with about 30% protein, give or take a few % points, less active dogs, maybe 25-30%, and hard working dogs ( police dogs, competition dogs, sled dogs) 35% +

I LOVE acana.. addie loves it too. I feel its well worth the money.. it was about the same price as Innova when I was feeding it. Orijen is good too, its Champions higher protein food.. I just feel its a bit too high for addie..I dont think she needs that much protein. All the brands you mentioned are great, so whatever is easiest fo you and fits in your budget best.

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Absoulte » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:11 pm

According to http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ all of the foods I have listed are more then 35% protein?

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby starrlamia » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:17 pm

I have also read studies that show that high protein content does not cause kidney issues, you only want to watch the protein once the dog has a kidney problem.

I vote acana too, orijen didnt do well with grendel but they both love the acana LID.

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby addieNmel » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:36 pm

Absoulte wrote:According to http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ all of the foods I have listed are more then 35% protein?


An active dog can get away with 30-35%, but I dont think more than 35% is necessary.. you're basically paying for more protein than you need...and thats the most expensive part. If you look on wellness's website, both core formulas are 34%, most Acana is 30-35%, and TOTW ranges from 27 or so ( pacific stream) to 34 % .. dog food advisor for some reason is rating protein a bit high. Orijen ( 38%) and Evo (42%) are the highest protein dog foods I know of. Hense why I stick with Acana - great quality from Champion but less protein for my medium active dog, and so slightly cheaper.

Any you listed should be just fine.

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Re: Natural Food vs. "Major" Brand vs. Raw

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:51 pm

addieNmel wrote:
Absoulte wrote:According to http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ all of the foods I have listed are more then 35% protein?


An active dog can get away with 30-35%, but I dont think more than 35% is necessary.. you're basically paying for more protein than you need...and thats the most expensive part. If you look on wellness's website, both core formulas are 34%, most Acana is 30-35%, and TOTW ranges from 27 or so ( pacific stream) to 34 % .. dog food advisor for some reason is rating protein a bit high. Orijen ( 38%) and Evo (42%) are the highest protein dog foods I know of. Hense why I stick with Acana - great quality from Champion but less protein for my medium active dog, and so slightly cheaper.

Any you listed should be just fine.

:goodpost:

There are unpublished studies in performance dogs that show protein levels higher than 35% DECREASE performance... its absolutely unecessary to have more protein than that.


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