Page 1 of 2

Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:31 pm
by dapbt
Greetings,

My dog Stanley has just been diagnosed with a round cell tumor below her under lips. It is the size of a finger nail. The vet says that there is a 80% change that it turns into cancer. She is 13 years old, so to me surgery is a last resort. The vet wants to remove it now, before it becomes any bigger.

I just had a complete physical done on her, and everything came back perfect. Plus her lymph nodes on her neck are not swollen.

I just scheduled an appointment with a holistc vet to see what can be done. Plus I put castor oil on the tumor 3 times a day.

Does anyone have any experience with round cell tumors?

Thanks

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:22 pm
by patty
I don't have any experience with these type of tumors. I am sending tons of love and positive thoughts for Stanley.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:51 pm
by AllisonPitbullLvr
If it was my old girl and all of her pre-surg tests came back normal and she was healthy and fit other than a tumor that has an 80% chance of becoming malignant, I would remove it.

The earlier surgery is done on a tumor, the faster and less difficult it is on the dog.

We had clients wait to remove a round cell tumour on their labrador until it was as large as a grapefruit. They ended up having to go to the teaching hospital to have it removed for fear that it had begun to invade the chest cavity.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:31 am
by Misskiwi67
Surgery now = a cure.

What are you waiting for?

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:05 am
by dapbt
Misskiwi67 wrote:Surgery now = a cure.

What are you waiting for?


My only fear is that she doesn't make it through the surgery. I am meeting with the holistic vet tomorrow to see what she says.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:07 am
by dapbt
AllisonPibbleLvr wrote:If it was my old girl and all of her pre-surg tests came back normal and she was healthy and fit other than a tumor that has an 80% chance of becoming malignant, I would remove it.

The earlier surgery is done on a tumor, the faster and less difficult it is on the dog.

We had clients wait to remove a round cell tumour on their labrador until it was as large as a grapefruit. They ended up having to go to the teaching hospital to have it removed for fear that it had begun to invade the chest cavity.


Thanks for the feedback. What is your experience with anesthesia and older dogs? What are the changes/percentage that older dogs don't make it through surgery?

Thanks

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:34 am
by Misskiwi67
dapbt wrote:Thanks for the feedback. What is your experience with anesthesia and older dogs? What are the changes/percentage that older dogs don't make it through surgery?

Thanks


I don't see any difference in risk between older animals and young animals. The patients that die under anesthesia are either very sick, or flukes that we don't understand. I actually think I have seen more issues with middle age patients than with seniors because seniors are SO well monitored. I have never lost a patient to anesthesia in the 3 years I've been working, the ones I have lost were after surgery, and they were so sick we weren't sure they'd make it anyway. I have seen anesthetic reactions and sudden anesthetic death in other doctors patients, one was a ferret, the other a 6 month old puppy, another a cat who had a dental, likely had undiagnosed heart disease.

A skin mass is a relatively simple and short procedure, although depending on the location on the lip it might be a bit more involved.

Its not her age that matters, but more the quality of the monitoring that happens at your clinic. Does your clinic alter the drug protocol for seniors, most will use propofol for induction and use less sedatives with the premeds (ie Ace in young pets but not in seniors). Does your clinic use EKG, capnography and blood pressure during anesthesia, and do they use it regularly enough to know how to read it? Will your pet be getting fluids during anesthesia? I would not do surgery on a senior dog without fluids and blood pressure monitoring, they make all the difference in the world. I would also want to know that someone will be in the room with her until she's awake enough to sit up, not just until she's disconnected from the machine.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:10 pm
by pblove
:pray for Stanley

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:18 pm
by Ilovethepits
I will keep you and Stanley and her caregivers in my prayers.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 pm
by dapbt
Misskiwi67 wrote:
dapbt wrote:Thanks for the feedback. What is your experience with anesthesia and older dogs? What are the changes/percentage that older dogs don't make it through surgery?

Thanks


I don't see any difference in risk between older animals and young animals. The patients that die under anesthesia are either very sick, or flukes that we don't understand. I actually think I have seen more issues with middle age patients than with seniors because seniors are SO well monitored. I have never lost a patient to anesthesia in the 3 years I've been working, the ones I have lost were after surgery, and they were so sick we weren't sure they'd make it anyway. I have seen anesthetic reactions and sudden anesthetic death in other doctors patients, one was a ferret, the other a 6 month old puppy, another a cat who had a dental, likely had undiagnosed heart disease.

A skin mass is a relatively simple and short procedure, although depending on the location on the lip it might be a bit more involved.

Its not her age that matters, but more the quality of the monitoring that happens at your clinic. Does your clinic alter the drug protocol for seniors, most will use propofol for induction and use less sedatives with the premeds (ie Ace in young pets but not in seniors). Does your clinic use EKG, capnography and blood pressure during anesthesia, and do they use it regularly enough to know how to read it? Will your pet be getting fluids during anesthesia? I would not do surgery on a senior dog without fluids and blood pressure monitoring, they make all the difference in the world. I would also want to know that someone will be in the room with her until she's awake enough to sit up, not just until she's disconnected from the machine.


Thank you very much for your response and comforting advice. When I talked to my vet he said that there is a heart monitar, and that there are several people in the operating room. Next time, I talk to him I will ask him about your questions.

Tomorrow, I meet with the holistic vet to see what she says, and I will meet with my vet by the end of the week.

I will keep everyone updated.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:52 pm
by tmherrera
dapbt wrote:
Thank you very much for your response and comforting advice. When I talked to my vet he said that there is a heart monitar, and that there are several people in the operating room. Next time, I talk to him I will ask him about your questions.

Tomorrow, I meet with the holistic vet to see what she says, and I will meet with my vet by the end of the week.

I will keep everyone updated.

Please keep us updated! and we will keep you in our prayers! :pray

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:15 am
by Misskiwi67
dapbt wrote:Thank you very much for your response and comforting advice. When I talked to my vet he said that there is a heart monitar, and that there are several people in the operating room. Next time, I talk to him I will ask him about your questions.

Tomorrow, I meet with the holistic vet to see what she says, and I will meet with my vet by the end of the week.

I will keep everyone updated.


That sounds like a pulse oximeter, which is heart rate and oxygenation. It is bare minimum standard of care. It is comforting to know it sounds like they do have a technician dedicated to monitoring. A dedicated technician who charts the anesthesia depth is probably the #1 best monitoring tool out there.

Ask about IV fluids and blood pressure monitoring, make sure they use their machine regularly and are comfortable believing their machines results. Good vets will have one, great vets use it daily. 1 in 4 patients will have their blood pressure drop under anesthesia (the biggest risk to kidneys and heart function) and 99% will be easily corrected with IV fluids. If your vet has this, I would have no problems removing the tumor at any age.

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:58 pm
by dapbt
Misskiwi67 wrote:
dapbt wrote:Thank you very much for your response and comforting advice. When I talked to my vet he said that there is a heart monitar, and that there are several people in the operating room. Next time, I talk to him I will ask him about your questions.

Tomorrow, I meet with the holistic vet to see what she says, and I will meet with my vet by the end of the week.

I will keep everyone updated.


That sounds like a pulse oximeter, which is heart rate and oxygenation. It is bare minimum standard of care. It is comforting to know it sounds like they do have a technician dedicated to monitoring. A dedicated technician who charts the anesthesia depth is probably the #1 best monitoring tool out there.

Ask about IV fluids and blood pressure monitoring, make sure they use their machine regularly and are comfortable believing their machines results. Good vets will have one, great vets use it daily. 1 in 4 patients will have their blood pressure drop under anesthesia (the biggest risk to kidneys and heart function) and 99% will be easily corrected with IV fluids. If your vet has this, I would have no problems removing the tumor at any age.



Today, we meet with the holistic vet, who also recommended to remove the tumor under Stanley's lip. She did some acupuncture on Stanley to help boost her immune system. Plus she gave me some herbs to also help boost the immune system.

After the appointment, I called our regular vet and scheduled the surgery for Stanley this coming Thursday :pray
He told me that there are 2 people in the operation room. The vet and a certified nurse, who charts the anesthesia, monitors the blood pressure and does the IV fluid. After the surgery, there will be a certified nurse with Stanley all the time until she wakes up. The procedure will take about an hour.

The anesthesia they use is propofol.

:pray :pray :pray

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 pm
by patty
Will be thinking of you and Stanley on Thursday :hug: for you both. I'm a nervous, worry wart Mom too!

Re: Round Cell Tumor

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:18 pm
by Misskiwi67
dapbt wrote:After the appointment, I called our regular vet and scheduled the surgery for Stanley this coming Thursday :pray
He told me that there are 2 people in the operation room. The vet and a certified nurse, who charts the anesthesia, monitors the blood pressure and does the IV fluid. After the surgery, there will be a certified nurse with Stanley all the time until she wakes up. The procedure will take about an hour.

The anesthesia they use is propofol.


Sounds like you're golden then... fingers crossed for a smooth surgery and an uneventful recovery!