Feeding Raw

[ProudMommy77]

Thanks Vin and C. I am gonna give it a try and see if it helps Sky with her dry skin issues.

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[IloveBlu]

OMG, why did I open this thread right to the last page?

I know the rabbit was dead already and everything, but I can help but think "poor Bunny Foofoo."

[starrlamia]

this may be a little off topic...but, Vin you mentioned using coconut oil, and so have others. Would you mind sharing the advantages of using it? And where to get it?

Ok, so I'm admitting to be a HUGE nerd here... but my radio station of choice is Dr. radio on Sirius, and last week on the nutrition show they were talking about coconut oil, and how medium chain fatty acids are really not any more nutritious than other vegetable oils, and omegas are still preferred. Did I hear them incorrectly, or is this a fad that will soon fall out of favor? Its totally new to me!!

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/Co ... Center.pdf

http://www.alternative-healthzine.com/html/0108_2.html

http://www.coconutoil.com/research.htm

i didnt completely read through all of the articles, but they quoted reasearch etc so it may be an interesting read.

[GoingPostal]

OMG, why did I open this thread right to the last page?

I know the rabbit was dead already and everything, but I can help but think "poor Bunny Foofoo."

LOL! My b/f constantly gives me crap because we feed whole prey to our ferrets so I'm always carrying around half a guinea pig or chopping up rabbits (which gets hair everywhere!). So the dogs don't scoff at the guts then? My ferrets won't eat stomach/guts on rabbits or guineas so I gut them. But they do on rats,mice, quail fine. My cat will sometimes leave out intestines on a larger mouse, that's the only whole prey she'll eat. I'm so tempted to start feeding the dogs raw reading all this, I've actually got the freezer space now and getting my gun safety hopefully this month, if I can bag a deer that would help food costs a ton and both dogs have had venison many times before with no problem. Plus I have a whole bunch of beef and pork liver and beef kidney that the ferrets/cat won't touch.

[lilangel]

The dogs actually ate the guts and poop first. Gobbled it right up.

[BrokenAquarian]

I butchered up 6 giant rabbits and then ground them with an electric meat grinder - after dealing with a giant garbage bag filled with whole ground bodies - then having to divide it all up into individual meals, I was done. I didn't want to deal with the mess and the smell every month. I had already been doing it for 3 months prior.
I now buy size appropriate bodies and just give them whole. Just a few minutes ago, I tossed the dogs a couple of rabbits that I didn't have to dismember.

Dismemberment is ok - but dealing with the stinky guts, mixing them with the meat and then making pattyies in large quantities gets old, real fast. I end up covered in the stuff and feel like a psycho who's trying to get rid of evidence.

You should have seen the looks on my friends' faces when they showed up and saw me dismembering bodies on the deck. I shrug and smile like it "Ain't no thang". Even though they live up in the woods, they apparently don't hunt their own food.

[Absoulte]

Well I don't think I could ever do the prey model - especially the rabbits! But tonight we are throwing in some chicken backs for our dogs for the first time.

[Nichole]

funny you should mention the rabbits - I have a source of inexpensive, young rabbits if I so desired. I havent fed whole prey model and I'm a little nervous. Do the dogs just take right to it? Are they going to recognize this dead animal as their meal? It sounds messy. I'm gonna give it a try but I'm not exactly looking forward to it.

[Adrianne]

funny you should mention the rabbits - I have a source of inexpensive, young rabbits if I so desired. I havent fed whole prey model and I'm a little nervous. Do the dogs just take right to it? Are they going to recognize this dead animal as their meal? It sounds messy. I'm gonna give it a try but I'm not exactly looking forward to it.

some do, some need it warmed and gushed up a bit first. I have had a few dogs who've taken missing a meal or two before they'll try it.

[Nichole]

Currently I feed my raw meals frozen so I'm hoping they'll take to the bunnies frozen as well. I'll cut it up in half (or quarters) if need be to get them started. here's hoping they don't need much prodding.

[lilangel]

Well I don't think I could ever do the prey model - especially the rabbits! But tonight we are throwing in some chicken backs for our dogs for the first time.

Glad to hear you're taking a little raw food adventure. A word of advice/ caution. If mixing raw with kibble you should expect some stomach upset after the first meal or two. I have noticed that the first meal or few meals, for some reason, digest well but after that the body gets on track and you start to get tummy problems, runny poop and lots of gas. Some people who feed both raw and kibble, split the meals up. Some kibble in the early morning and then raw in the evening before bedtime. That allows the kibble to finish digesting before the raw pushes it out. I've done it this way and not had any issues.

Kibble and raw digest at vastly different rates. Kibble takes around 14 hours to go through the system last time I checked, whereas raw is in the neighborhood of 4 hours. You can imagine how the two would come out all half digested and runny f mixed. Chicken backs are also quite bony and may be a bit harder to digest for a dog not accustomed to eating raw bones. Some schools of thought feel that when a dog has eaten mostly kibble, it has a greatly diminished amount of digestive enzymes and flora and that it may take some time eating raw food to grow those populations back.

Also, kibble is supposed to be a balanced diet. Adding raw food to that in an unbalanced form can throw the balance off. Some don't mind that others do.

[lilangel]

I've been meaning to say that this thread was not intended to put feeding kibble in a bad light or to say that anyone should switch to feeding a raw diet or that my way is the best and only way. We all do the best we can, or at least that is my hope.

I do think the "it could be worse" mentality should be "striving for: it couldn't be any better" but that's really neither here nor there. Dogs that are in a loving home, that get some attention, have a roof over their heads and have people who feed the best that they can afford are indeed lucky. If any of my comments offended people who feed kibble then I apologize. That is not my intention with this thread.

I do feel that feeding real food is more nutritious and sometimes more enjoyable for them but that is just my opinion about the food, not a judgement on the people feeding or not feeding it. Despite my many years feeding various recipes of a raw diet, I still feel I am a novice and do not know for sure whether what I am doing is perfect, horrible or mediocre. It is probably mediocre, I don't know. I just see that the dogs seem to be in good health and I hope that I am providing the best life and the best food that I can.

[Misskiwi67]

Kibble and raw digest at vastly different rates. Kibble takes around 14 hours to go through the system last time I checked, whereas raw is in the neighborhood of 4 hours. You can imagine how the two would come out all half digested and runny f mixed. Chicken backs are also quite bony and may be a bit harder to digest for a dog not accustomed to eating raw bones. Some schools of thought feel that when a dog has eaten mostly kibble, it has a greatly diminished amount of digestive enzymes and flora and that it may take some time eating raw food to grow those populations back.

Also, kibble is supposed to be a balanced diet. Adding raw food to that in an unbalanced form can throw the balance off. Some don't mind that others do.

Where is the science behind this? Digestion is digestion, and the stomach is designed to process what is digested when it is ready to pass to the next level. I know darn well bone does not process in 4 hours, and I have the x-rays to prove it.

My dogs regularly go from a raw meal to a kibble meal and back again and have no issues.

I regularly eat raw fish with cooked rice (Sushi) and have no issues.

I think this is another wacko myth with no scientific basis and I have no idea where it came from or what its purpose is???


Lastly, if the raw diet is balanced, it cannot throw off the "balance" so just do it right if you're going to feed something new. If you're going to supplement, don't feed more than 10% of the calories as a supplement unless you are going to balance it.

[Misskiwi67]

Kibble and raw digest at vastly different rates. Kibble takes around 14 hours to go through the system last time I checked, whereas raw is in the neighborhood of 4 hours. You can imagine how the two would come out all half digested and runny f mixed. Chicken backs are also quite bony and may be a bit harder to digest for a dog not accustomed to eating raw bones. Some schools of thought feel that when a dog has eaten mostly kibble, it has a greatly diminished amount of digestive enzymes and flora and that it may take some time eating raw food to grow those populations back.

Also, kibble is supposed to be a balanced diet. Adding raw food to that in an unbalanced form can throw the balance off. Some don't mind that others do.

Where is the science behind this? Digestion is digestion, and the stomach is designed to process what is digested when it is ready to pass to the next level. I know darn well bone does not process in 4 hours, and I have the x-rays to prove it. GI transit time for an average dog fed kibble is about 6 hours. I use this number regularly when I'm not sure if the stomach is emptying quickly enough (resulting in vomiting), or if I suspect an obstruction. If the stomach is emptying properly, a GI barium series should be completed in 6 hours or less (4 hours in cats) and if its not emptying, its time for surgery.

My dogs regularly go from a raw meal to a kibble meal and back again and have no issues.

I regularly eat raw fish with cooked rice (Sushi) and have no issues.

I think this is another wacko myth with no scientific basis and I have no idea where it came from or what its purpose is???


Lastly, if the raw diet is balanced, it cannot throw off the "balance" so just do it right if you're going to feed something new. If you're going to supplement, don't feed more than 10% of the calories as a supplement unless you are going to balance it.

[Misskiwi67]

Oh wow, my edit resulted in a double post... crazy! Sorry for the triple post, but felt there should be an explanation!

The second post has additional information the first is lacking... if a mod wants to delete the first post and this one, that would be great!