Feeding Raw

[FBODGRL]

Something else Vin, that I really think should be touched on in this thread, is the importance of feeding more than one protein source, or having a variety in the diet. It's ok to have chicken as your base diet, chicken liver, hearts, necks, legs, backs, thighs, etc. But, I want to stress the importance of following a 80-10-10 rule. Don't just feed necks, because that is what is available, don't just feed backs because that is what is available, it needs to be a balanced diet.

My dogs regularly go from a raw meal to a kibble meal and back again and have no issues.

are you feeding premade raw or actual parts? What happened to you had no interest in feeding it?

Lastly, if the raw diet is balanced, it cannot throw off the "balance" so just do it right if you're going to feed something new. If you're going to supplement, don't feed more than 10% of the calories as a supplement unless you are going to balance it.

so, do tell how to do it right? and how to balance it out. I want to hear this, both of the vets I use are advocates for Raw Feeding. So, I would like to hear it from a dabbler of raw feeding.

X2 and

I'd also like to add that I have read numerous times about raw and kibble digesting at different rates. I have only found one source that gave an actual numerical figure and it was 12 hrs. I don't know if there is science behind what I believe as credible sources saying this or not. I never checked. I can say that my own personal dog does not seem to digest raw at that particular rate or I should say digest everything at that rate. I know I can feed organ and if it is something that is causing upset it generally doesn't start problems until 12 hrs later and can cause runny poop for over a day. But as I have said...my guy has a sensitive stomach. Plus I think it has been said in this thread, but if it hasn't every dog is different and handles different proteins, organs and supplements differently which is why you don't see specific "feed this" instructions...you have to feed based on what works for YOUR dog best while following the 80/10/10.

[Adrianne]

I am pretty sure MK once swore we were killing our dogs with raw meat. Check one point for the learning curve, maybe she's just trying to educate herself?

On topic, those who supplement, I read about grapeseed extract being a great dog supplement?

Grape seed extract (GSE) (Vitis Vinnifera) is an extract from grape seeds from red grapes. Grape seeds have a high content of compounds called oligomeric proanthocyanidins— better known as OPCs, which are potent antioxidants. Because of their simple chemical structure, OPCs are readily absorbed into the bloodstream.

Grape seed extract:

Protects the body from premature aging and disease
Supports healthy skin
Promotes cellular health, elasticity, and flexibility
Improves blood circulation by strengthening capillaries, arteries, and veins
Reduces risk of cataracts
Protects against cancer
Provides cardiovascular support
Grape seed extract is especially beneficial to aging animals, and animals with cataracts, cancer and heart disease.

On the Safety of Grape Seed Extract: Grapes and raisins have been of much debate in the past few years. Here is a short quote from the Veterinary Information Network board posts ”Ingestion of grapes or raisins has been associated with acute renal failure in dogs. Anecdotal evidence suggests that cats may also be affected… Being a fructose sugar, it is quickly eliminated through the kidneys where it reaches high tissue levels. It then causes a certain cell “power house” called the mitochondria to open and allow calcium to enter.” This causes the mitochondria to stop functioning, therefore the death of the cell. “Recent unpublished data indicates that the toxic component is water soluble, and within the flesh of the grape/raisin, not the seed. Thus the current thinking is that grape seed may be safe to use.”

Grape seed is often found with antioxidant supplements used for human cancer treatments. The seed induces the cell deaths of highly replicating cancer cells. There was a study done on men with prostate carcinoma which showed approximately 90% inhibition of the pathways that induces the growth of the cancer cells.

The flavanoids in the seed are known to reduce inflammation, and support the immune system particularly with respiratory issues, allergies, and skin problems. It has been used in cats and dogs successfully without any reported problems.

Thoughts??

[Misskiwi67]

I am pretty sure MK once swore we were killing our dogs with raw meat. Check one point for the learning curve, maybe she's just trying to educate herself?

Maybe, I thought I was just posting information that showed numerous studies proving dogs who eat raw diets are MUCH more likely to carry and shed pathogenic bacteria, proving that dogs do not kill the bacteria they ingest with a raw diet. This puts both pets and the people who feed raw at risk.

My dogs love raw meaty bones, chicken parts, and more. I have made a point of trying as many foods as possible on my dogs as part of my own learning process, I want to know whats out there and the pros and cons of every diet. I will feed my dogs a raw diet someday, I just don't have the money or freezer space to give it a good go yet. So in the meantime, my dogs get a food I trust (Nature's Variety Patties) a couple times a week as I can afford to purchase it, not because I believe its better for them (I do believe whole foods are better), but because they like it and I like watching them see something new in their bowls.

I have fed parts as well, mostly chicken as one of my dogs is allergic to beef, and have had no digestive issues, its messy though, so I haven't done this in quite some time.

I don't know how to balance a diet, this is why I feed pre-made, and am a big advocate for prey model. Both options make sense to me, and it is something I can tell my clients is an option. Working 60+ hours a week and 18 hour overnight shifts alternate weeks, I can barely find time to feed myself a healthy diet, let alone my dogs.

The 10% rule is something I picked up from a nutrition course. It was based on feeding treats, more than 10% will skew a balanced diet, so I apply that rule to any and all dietary alterations.

[FBODGRL]

I wanted to make another point regarding the digestion rate. I believe it is the actual MEAT that digest at a higher rate, not necessarily the bone. For example Khan had a recreational bone on Friday night aside from that normal meals. Today his poop is chalky and dry (I am sure from that bone)

Does anyone supplement kelp?

Khan is still not up to full organ amount (an I realize all measurements are over a period of time...dogs life, etc.) any suggestions on a supplement I could add for some extra vitamin mineral that he would be getting from organ?

[starrlamia]

i use kelp for brie, grendel wont eat it he thinks its gross :P

[mtlu]

I give Molly a dehydrated kelp that gets reconstituted with the water that I add to her kibble. She's never had an issue with it that I can tell - with all the other things that are added in rotation, I would have to go back to plain kibble and add things one by one to figure out if there was one particular item that she doesn't like.

[AllisonPitbullLvr]

I don't feed raw but have used kelp on and off for my dogs skin/digestion. I took them off it while I reaearches the potential for the iodine in the kelp to throw off buddy's thyroid tests but since I didn't notice a discernible difference between them on it or off it, I think I will save my money.

[Absoulte]

Do you think it is a bad approach to feed a kibble diet (I do not trust myself to provide a healthy, balanced diet for my dog at this point) and throw in some raw here and there?

Like I said, two or three nights a week throwing in some chicken backs/legs or other meats I can get my hands on.

I will not go raw until I have done the research I feel I need to do and am prepared to feed it. I don't have a ton of free time, so that will probably result in a few years research before going completely raw.

Just have my dog's well being at heart. Want to do the best for him!

[BrokenAquarian]

That's perfectly fine Your dogs should love it.

[AllisonPitbullLvr]

Do you think it is a bad approach to feed a kibble diet (I do not trust myself to provide a healthy, balanced diet for my dog at this point) and throw in some raw here and there?

Like I said, two or three nights a week throwing in some chicken backs/legs or other meats I can get my hands on.

I will not go raw until I have done the research I feel I need to do and am prepared to feed it. I don't have a ton of free time, so that will probably result in a few years research before going completely raw.

Just have my dog's well being at heart. Want to do the best for him!

I think I might do this for my guys too. Buddy is on a prescription diet so raw is not an option for her but I've considered it for Obi. In the meantime, I think I might just give them it as a treat/meal replacement here and there. (Like the time Obi ate the two raw sirloin steaks out of the sink....)

[rgyoung777]

Do you think it is a bad approach to feed a kibble diet (I do not trust myself to provide a healthy, balanced diet for my dog at this point) and throw in some raw here and there?

Like I said, two or three nights a week throwing in some chicken backs/legs or other meats I can get my hands on.

I will not go raw until I have done the research I feel I need to do and am prepared to feed it. I don't have a ton of free time, so that will probably result in a few years research before going completely raw.

Just have my dog's well being at heart. Want to do the best for him!

That's pretty much what we do.
I also buy premade raw patties occasionally and add those to her kibble meals for variety.
She's had absolutely zero digestion issues from eating raw chicken and/or premade raw patties simultaneously with her kibble. We've also given her ox tails and beef ribs now and then and she loves them.
Recreational raw bones are a great idea too! Both the Primal brand and Nature's variety have great bones with a little meat on them, if you can't find suitable bones at a local butcher. Pork femurs are Lucy's favorite and they keep her teeth nice and clean.

[BrokenAquarian]

Something raw that my dogs like to do -

I buy frozen mice and hide them in the yard. I let one dog out at a time and they have to search for them. They LOVE it.

[Ilovethepits]

Something raw that my dogs like to do -

I buy frozen mice and hide them in the yard. I let one dog out at a time and they have to search for them. They LOVE it.

I don't even like frozen mice and that sounds fun to me!!

[addieNmel]

Do you think it is a bad approach to feed a kibble diet (I do not trust myself to provide a healthy, balanced diet for my dog at this point) and throw in some raw here and there?

Like I said, two or three nights a week throwing in some chicken backs/legs or other meats I can get my hands on.

I will not go raw until I have done the research I feel I need to do and am prepared to feed it. I don't have a ton of free time, so that will probably result in a few years research before going completely raw.

Just have my dog's well being at heart. Want to do the best for him!

Thats what we do. I feed Addie Acana for her kibble meals or when shes boarding, we're traveling etc. At home I try to suppliment whole ground raw ( from my pet carnivore at the moment) meals every few days ( instead of a kibble meal). I also offer the occasional chicken foot, whole herring, fruit/veggie mix ( just because addie likes it) an egg here or there etc. I'm still a bit nervous about bone, so chicken feet is as far as we've gone, but she seems to love it! We may go all raw one of these days.

[Adrianne]

How do people feel about dehydrated raw (artisan or honest kitchen) in the same meal or even day as kibble or raw meat? I am curious the process time for dehydrated foods.

On that note has anyone tried grandma lucys Artisan? I'm considering this in conjunction with a raw diet.