"Dogs need by products"-Vet

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"Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby cinder06 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:58 pm

My sister asked her vet what would be the best dog food for her dogs because she was using a all natural dog food, and the vet said that all this all natural stuff is not good for the dogs and its not natural.

He said that dogs need by product in their system because that is what they ate in the wild. Dead animal pieces.

He said they need the corn because thats how everyone made their meals back in the settler times, they smashed the corn, and made corn meal and it was fed to the dogs too.

I think this sounds...dumb lol. He told her to start buying Hills Science Diet, its what they sell in like every vet place around here.

I think he was totally just trying to sell a bag, becuase by product is all the cut off parts of animals right?? smashed up into dog food?? How is that natural lol, when did wild dogs find by product in the wild??

And the corn? I'm sure dogs ate scraps like they do now, but they need corn meal?

Your thoughts??
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby starrlamia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Dogs need variety and dogs need not just muscle meat but also bones and organ meats. The problem with by products is you dont know exactly how they were treated or what they are, while I believe any part of an animal is food for a dog, not all manufacturing plants treat the parts well. The advantage of science diet is that they have spent years and tons of money on trials and studies to see how their diets work. I think science diet has its place for animals with illnesses but it isnt neccessarily the best diet for healthy dogs. However in saying that if a dog does well on it I dont see a huge issue. The problem with foods that state "Natural" is that they dont neccessarily have to be natural to be able to use the label. Dog nutrition is a hot topic and it's also a very complex topic.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby WackyJacki » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:11 am

I'm not going to go into the whole Science Diet thing, but the comment about settlers eating corn and so it's what our dogs need is hysterical.

A) The domesticated dog was around thousands of years prior to these "settlers".

B) A dog's digestive system hasn't changed, despite their being domesticated. They are still carnivores, through and through like the wolves they came from.

I would run, not walk, away from this guy. lol
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:33 am

WackyJacki wrote:B) A dog's digestive system hasn't changed, despite their being domesticated. They are still carnivores, through and through like the wolves they came from.


This is not totally true, but it is more true than what the vet was saying.

Dogs are much more scavengers than wolves due to domestication. Their digestive tract may not have changed grossly, but it is capable of digesting much more, much more efficiently than most people give them credit for.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby WackyJacki » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:19 am

I am curious where that information comes from, because I have always read that their digestive systems are virtually identical? I realize that dogs are opportunistic of course.

If you could provide the studies/science behind the differences in their digestive systems and dietary requirements I would be genuinely interested in seeing them. (I'm not saying that to be snarky, I really am curious!)
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby Misskiwi67 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:44 pm

WackyJacki wrote:I am curious where that information comes from, because I have always read that their digestive systems are virtually identical? I realize that dogs are opportunistic of course.

If you could provide the studies/science behind the differences in their digestive systems and dietary requirements I would be genuinely interested in seeing them. (I'm not saying that to be snarky, I really am curious!)


Its my birthday today, and I'm just doing a quick peek at the board before I head out for my day of fun... but I will dig out my nutrition text and find that info for you when I can, probably Monday. Pester me if this thread falls down to where I forget about it.

I believe the changes are more behavioral than physical/chemical, but behavior still makes up a large part of what separates one species from another.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby BrokenAquarian » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:32 pm

Dogs need things like guts/organs, cartilage and brains. They have important nutrients and such. Things like corn or grains do not need to be in the food - because it's not something they should be eating every single day forever. It shouldn't be a staple ingredient.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby cinder06 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:09 pm

Thanks for the replies guys, isn't by product also not just parts but sometimes diseased animals as well? Isn't that where the part that euthanized animals can be mixed into by product? Or I am way off topic??
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby Apbt4life » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:39 pm

cinder06 wrote:My sister asked her vet what would be the best dog food for her dogs because she was using a all natural dog food, and the vet said that all this all natural stuff is not good for the dogs and its not natural.

He said that dogs need by product in their system because that is what they ate in the wild. Dead animal pieces.

He said they need the corn because thats how everyone made their meals back in the settler times, they smashed the corn, and made corn meal and it was fed to the dogs too.

I think this sounds...dumb lol. He told her to start buying Hills Science Diet, its what they sell in like every vet place around here.

I think he was totally just trying to sell a bag, becuase by product is all the cut off parts of animals right?? smashed up into dog food?? How is that natural lol, when did wild dogs find by product in the wild??

And the corn? I'm sure dogs ate scraps like they do now, but they need corn meal?

Your thoughts??


some might say my dog lived to 12 or 15years, on pedigree or science diet and he was fine.. the problem isnt the fact that pedigree and science diet are lower grades of food and arent to healthy cause they have little to almost no meat. Dogs are carnivores and need to eat meat. in the wild im sure they eat everyhting like scavengers. The problem with all these foods with by products are the fact that there is hoarse hooves mixed in that food, there is dead road kill, there is euthanized animals from vet offices and some shelters. The chemicals that were in the syringe left behind in these dogs that make the by products can cause cancer and many other illnesses to your dogs. That is the main reason why these foods are so bad for our dogs.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:03 pm

Euthanized pets found in dog foods is a myth... there was a study over 10 years ago that DNA tested 20 of the most popular dog foods and found NO dog, cat or horse DNA in the foods. They did find other meats that weren't supposed to be there, like chicken in the beef food, but that was it.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby ProudMommy77 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:43 pm

Foods that list "meat by-product meal,” as one of their ingredients can contain any number of meats.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby lilangel » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:55 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Euthanized pets found in dog foods is a myth... there was a study over 10 years ago that DNA tested 20 of the most popular dog foods and found NO dog, cat or horse DNA in the foods. They did find other meats that weren't supposed to be there, like chicken in the beef food, but that was it.


You are more contrary than me! Everything is a "myth" to you, eh? lol
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby kagnew » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:38 am

some might say my dog lived to 12 or 15years, on pedigree or science diet and he was fine..


I was one of those people. My first "very own" dog was a little Lhasa that I got at 8 weeks and sent to the bridge when she was 16. Pretty long time, eh?

But the last few years of her life she was plagued by itchy, greasy, smelly skin. Little tumors and bumps everywhere. She would chew on herself to the point that hair would mat in her teeth. She stunk so badly that nobody could stand to be near her. I bathed her at least weekly with vet recommended shampoo. She was fed prescription Science Diet, clockwork annual vaccs, worming, heartworm & flea prevention, received steroid shots and still... I followed my vets orders to the letter. By the time she passed she was virtually hairless, toothless and miserable. (FWIW - this was 15 years ago, but honestly things haven't changed THAT much in my experience.) This kills me to remember and share. It does NOT have to be this way!

The problem was (and still is) that those problems have become the "norm." Most dogs seem to have the same issues to varying degrees and we just accept it. They're dogs. They stink. They have bad breath and itchy skin and rotten teeth and stinky ears and they get cancer and have all manner of "people type" diseases... We accept these things as a natural progression in the lives of our dogs. (Well, some of us do anyway.) Poor nutrition people!!!

My oldest Pug will be 15 in February. He has been raw fed for 4 years. He is virtually odorless. Thick, velvety, glossy coat. He has fewer teeth than he started with, but the ones he has look good and work fine. I don't bathe my dogs. At all. The last time I bathed one of my dogs was 2 years ago when our Lab, Bear (RIP) was skunked. People stop us out in public and ask why our dogs don't smell and how we get their coats so soft and touchable.

Yeesh - sorry. There I go. I just feel so passionately about this issue. I absolutely respect (most) vets. They have a great deal of very expensive education and (most) care passionately about animals. I absolutely defer to their expertise and experience when my pets are ill or injured. But I do not apologize for the fact that I have a real problem with the peddling of poor quality nutrition.

Donning flame-retardant suit and stepping off (no climbing down from) my soapbox...
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby BrokenAquarian » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:06 pm

kagnew wrote:My oldest Pug will be 15 in February. He has been raw fed for 4 years. He is virtually odorless. Thick, velvety, glossy coat. He has fewer teeth than he started with, but the ones he has look good and work fine. I don't bathe my dogs. At all. The last time I bathed one of my dogs was 2 years ago when our Lab, Bear (RIP) was skunked. People stop us out in public and ask why our dogs don't smell and how we get their coats so soft and touchable.


That is so incredibly awesome and encouraging to me. :)
These two dogs are the first I've ever had on raw(over 3 years now) and I wonder about how they're going to hold over into old age. I don't have to bathe my dogs, nor do I have to use flea & tick products on them - I just pulled a flea off of Keela yesterday - So, I know they're around. They don't get infested at all.

I also wonder about dog joints and if lack of specific nutrients is directly aiding in all the problems you hear about.
I'd love to hear about long term raw(balanced) fed dogs and what health problems occured in their lifetimes.
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Re: "Dogs need by products"-Vet

Postby ProudMommy77 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:08 pm

kagnew wrote:Yeesh - sorry. There I go. I just feel so passionately about this issue. I absolutely respect (most) vets. They have a great deal of very expensive education and (most) care passionately about animals. I absolutely defer to their expertise and experience when my pets are ill or injured. But I do not apologize for the fact that I have a real problem with the peddling of poor quality nutrition.

Donning flame-retardant suit and stepping off (no climbing down from) my soapbox...


no, stay up there!!! I absolutely love your post!!!!
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