Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

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Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby jamielvsaustin » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:08 am

We've figured out that Bailey is allergic to beef. We've given her other things like elk (antlers), deer (meat and antlers), bison, donkey, yak etc. And while we've never noticed a big flair up while she's had those things...I wonder if they work against her...possibly keeping her immune system below what it should be.

I'm curious to know, typically, where on the scientific classification chart is high enough up to get away from an allergen. For example, this is the classification for the domestic cow (cattle):
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Bovidae

And this is the scientific classification for deer:
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Cervidae

Until you get to the family everything is the same. In order to avoid allergies do you think it should be a different order or possibly class? (maybe fish and birds instead of a red meat) We feed TOTW Pacific Stream-so it isn't really her food I'm concerned about-more like treats. We don't give her bully sticks but we've given her donkey pizzles and venison/lamb tracheas, lungs and pig snouts, etc.
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby mtlu » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:14 pm

If you've narrowed it down to beef, I would leave it at that. How extreme are Bailey's allergic reactions?

Through a process of elimination, I figured out a long time ago that Molly was also allergic to beef but she has still been given bovine products here and there without any major effects. I used to keep her on an exclusive fish-based kibble (like Pacific Stream in the past) but now I rotate her through all the Orijen and Acana blends that don't contain beef but do include lamb and bison amongst other animals. The reasoning for *not* keeping her on an exclusive fish-based diet is to make sure that she doesn't develop further intolerance to other protein sources. Lack of exposure to different things can cause further problems of intolerance as opposed to maintaining strict avoidance (unless the reactions are extreme like anaphylactic shock or some kind of organ failure). I actually may try a small bag of one of the Orijen blends that does contain beef (but it is not the sole protein source) at some point just to see how she does.

She does get raw bones from time to time which are beef - no meat on them but plenty of marrow. She paws at her mouth after she has been chewing on one for a while so I wipe her mouth. Her ears might seem a little yeasty the day after so I keep an eye on her ears and clean them again. One of her grandmas also likes to not-so-slyly feed her table scraps, which often include beef stew. I've not noticed any major reactions from that either. The main culprit of her beef allergy was a container of dehydrated beef liver (no other ingredients) and she also once had a reaction to some dehydrated lamb lung - so it's actually bovine and ovine organ meat that gives her problems.
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby jamielvsaustin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:34 pm

Her reactions typically cause skin reactions...bumps/hives that end up loosing hair, itchiness and yeast (mostly this is the case). I've not paid attention enough to see if she's rubbing/scratching her mouth after one treat/bone more than another-but I'll keep an eye out. She does seem to scratch her face/mouth more than Trooper does (don't really know if that means anything).

I didn't think about excluding other protein sources causing an issue with them later in life-but it makes sense. I guess we could do some trial runs with different treats (other than beef, but possibly still in that same order/family.

I just don't want to be inadvertantly putting her (or her immune system) at a disadvantage if I can avoid it. I'd had to have her feeling alright vs great simply because I'm ignorant.
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby Amie » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:02 pm

Oscar is allergic to beef, and while I've been told that it's usually as specific as muscle meat vs organ meat, I haven't been told that by anyone I trusted (lol) and so I avoid beef entirely. I generally give him very few mammals and stick to poultry and seafood for him. I haven't noticed any problems with lamb or bison or other red meats, but I just don't feel like risking it.
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby mtlu » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:12 pm

It sounds like Bailey's reactions are a bit stronger than Molly's. I've never had to give her benadryl for hives (phew!) and she usually just gets yeasty ears and some general itchiness.

Do you keep a food diary for Bailey? If it's hard to keep an eye on things or be consistent about taking notes, you can also just portion out her treats for a week and hide all the other stuff. I had to limit which treat was available for BF to give to Molly when I was doing process-of-elimination in trying to narrow down Molly's allergy trigger(s). It was hard to get him on board with making notes so it was easier to limit his access to stuff he was giving Molly, lol.

I think there can be some value in trying to narrow down what Bailey's trigger(s) might be. If I had kept to a strict no-beef rule, I would not have been able to try a joint supplement for Molly that is derived from bovine yeast. Since treating her joint issues is kind of top priority, being able to try different things is important to me so given what I knew of her history, it was a safe risk to put her on that supplement even though it contained bovine-derived ingredients. Adequan is a popular joint supplement that contains ingredients extracted from bovine trachea - not choosing to try that one yet on Molly but I think her risk of allergic reaction to that will be low - it will be more likely that I decide not to give her Adequan for entirely different reasons.
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby Amie » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:40 am

Oh, one thing I just thought of - a lot of "beef flavored" products (like the heartworm preventatives) are actually beef flavored but pork derived, and so aren't a problem. That said, Baytril saved Oscar's life this June, and is beef flavored with actual beef, so he spent six weeks with ear infections while he was on that.... apparently, there's no way to tell if it's beef or pork until you see symptoms... so just be aware of that!
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Re: Allergies re: Class, Order, Family, Species, etc.

Postby BrokenAquarian » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Animal classes are human labels, which means they're just fabricated groups. While mostly accurate - It doesn't necessarily show how close or far two species are related. They change their minds on things like that. :)

I would say deer is closer to goat than cow.

Sometimes the problem may be what the cows are fed. Crappy grain diets make inferior meat, which makes inferior food. Some dogs and people can't handle eating grain fed animals, but can eat the same animal when it's fed it's natural diet.

Allergies come from all sorts of places, and that just sucks.
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