Bloodwork before a spay

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Bloodwork before a spay

Postby concreterose » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:36 pm

Vicki is getting spayed on Friday. I got something in the mail from the vet saying that they suggest doing bloodwork before putting her under anesthesia. This is to check her thyroid, liver and some other stuff I can't remember. It's optional (of course it's extra $), but I plan on getting it if it will benefit her and is truly necessary. Has anyone else on here that got their animal spayed/neutered gotten bloodwork before anesthesia? I don't remember getting it when I got Pookie spayed, but that was a long time ago. Thanks for your input.
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Postby jmann4 » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:03 pm

I got the whole work up for Angel. My cousin handled Honey's, I'm pretty sure she got the bloodwork done though. I wanted to make sure nothing would go wrong so I paid the extra money.
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Postby mnp13 » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:09 pm

Get it done. It's a little extra money, but can catch something that could prove to be deadly under anestetic. If you can afford it, it will give you peace of mind and a baseline to use for reference if she gets sick in the next year or so.

Once a year I spend about $500 at the vet for all three animals. If they can test it, I get it tested. I lost a cat last year to liver failure, something that might have been caught if I'd had more regular exams done. It's expensive, but far less than the emotional toll that I took last summer.
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Postby myers » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:25 pm

i agree, if you can afford the extre money, get it done. you never know what they might find. I actually lost a puppy of mine like that. I got it from the local humane society when i was 18. Now thats going back a few years. The required that you get them spayed/neutered. I wasn't for the idea back then, i figured i didn't want mine removed so why would my dog. But i took him in to have the "simple" procedure done. Four hours later i get a phone call from the humane society and they tell me they "lost" my dog. I said how the hell do you loose a dog? They said there were complications during the surgery and he didn't make it. I was completely devistated, and it still hurts to this day. Who knows how things would have gone if i didn't take him in to get neutered. He might still be around today. So i will NEVER take any of my dogs in to get unecessary surgery ever again. I am just vigilant about their relations between boys and girls. I havent had a pregnancy yet.
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Postby concreterose » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:58 pm

Thanks...I'm going to get it done. The $'s not an object, I've been saving for it for a few months :thumbsup:
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Postby mnp13 » Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:31 pm

So i will NEVER take any of my dogs in to get unecessary surgery ever again. I am just vigilant about their relations between boys and girls. I havent had a pregnancy yet.


Myers, I am sorry to hear of the dog you lost, but spays are not 'unnessary surgery'. Last summer I almost lost Ruby to a uterine infection after her first heat. The problem with dogs is they are built to have litters every heat, the end of their uteris actually opens up when they are in season and closes again when it is over. If any foreign matter or bacteria gets in there you end up with an infection called Pyometra (sp?).

Pyometra can be closed or open (draining). If your dog ends up with a closed infection, the infection stays in the uteris and gets worse and worse. Ultimately your dog will die of the infection itself, or die if the uteris ruptures. This takes about 48-72 hours from healthy dog to dead dog.

A draining Pyometra just drips and smells sorta funky. There is an infection in there, but since it has a release you don't get the same problems as a closed infection. Your dog just slowly gets weaker and weaker; it took over a month for us to realize what was going on because it is a very slow process. In hind sight, we knew exactly what the red flags were, but at the time we didn't catch it. I don't think many people would.

If you the infection in time you can try heavy oral antibiotics, or a series of injections that gives the dog uterine contractions to try to expel the infection. Sometimes the treatments work sometimes they don't - and if they don't you have wasted a lot of time and let your dog get sicker.

If you decide to have a spay done after the dog has Pyometra, expect to pay double (if not more). The vet has to have extra staff on hand incase of problems, the surgery is riskier and they have to go very slow and be very careful. The uteris is extremely fragile from the infection and they occasionally rupture during the surgery, creating a major problem. When my vet removed Ruby's uteris she opened it up to see how it looked - and the tissue was black and beginning to become necrotic. She said from the look of it Ruby would have been dead in the next few days - nothing can linve with rotting tissue inside.

After Ruby's surgery it took weeks - literally - before she was even a little like herself. The first week after I had to hand feed her every meal, she didn't want to move at all, and she spent a lot of time just laying there looking like she wished she was dead.

It tends to be hereditary, and responsible breeders spay all dogs in a breed line once it shows up. Is Pyometra common? No. Only about 10-15% of dogs get it. But please please please trust me on this one, you don't want to go through it.

Ruby's blood work, xrays, antibiotics, spay and follow up care cost me over $900. To say nothing of the many many hours of anxiety, pain and tears that I went through.

Not one single word here is an exadduration, and I am not trying to 'scare' anyone. But I lived though it (and so did Ruby, thank God) and I would hope to spare anyone a similar experience. Unless your dog is intended for breeding (and don't get me started on that topic!!!) or has a medical reason for not getting spayed (like a heart problem for example) then get your dog fixed.

Just my 8.7 cents of painfully learned experience.

Michelle
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Postby myers » Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:13 pm

I mean absolutely no offence by this but:

Ruby's blood work, xrays, antibiotics, spay and follow up care cost me over $900. To say nothing of the many many hours of anxiety, pain and tears that I went through.


I would rather pay $900 than loose my best friend to unecassary forced surgery by a shelter. As you said it is very uncommon, my dogs have a better chance of being struck by lightning then getting pyometra.


just my opinion
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Postby jmann4 » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:04 am

myers wrote:I would rather pay $900 than loose my best friend to unecassary forced surgery by a shelter. As you said it is very uncommon, my dogs have a better chance of being struck by lightning then getting pyometra.


Unless you breed your dogs why wouldn't you fix them?

The odds of you losing your dog when the precedure is done by a good vet are very remote. It's not an unnecassary surgery in my opinion. Just my opinion.
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Postby myers » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:42 am

well it's very unecessary in mine. How would you like it if your parents decided to neuter you when you were born? I guess you have to loose a dog to this procedure before you see it from my side. Both myself and also some friends of mine choose NOT to get these procedures done and NONE of us have had any unwanted pregnancy's due to our choices, and that's a line of BS that it makes your dog "live" longer because i have a very healthy 10 year old shep, and my friends also have dogs in the teens and one is a 17 year old dobie. all of wich are not fixed.



I guess if you have dogs that get out and run the streets or are not trained properly to stay in the yard, then it's the right choice for you. However it's not for me.
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Postby Boo439 » Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:03 am

When I worked at the vet, I tried to get everyone to get it. Not just to make money for the clinic, but it really does save lives. In some cases, it may give you bad news.

That's how I found out my favorite animal in the whole wide world, Jerry-Bear BooBoo Head, was going into kidney failure. Wish I didn't find out when I did :( At least he didn't die when they put him under, because I would have never gotten to spend those last, wonderful days with him.

Go for the work-up!
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Postby mnp13 » Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:43 am

myers wrote: How would you like it if your parents decided to neuter you when you were born?


There is no 'nice' way to put this, so I will be blunt. I do not identify my sexuality with my dog's sexuality. My dog will not miss the 'right' to bear or sire offspring. Dogs do not lament the loss of reproductive capacity, they do not have a concept of longing for a family.

Males can breed through fences - this has happened time and time again, just ask a breeder who had dogs in ajoining kennels when a bitch came into season. An intact male that gets out just once is going to roam to find a bitch in season - that is why they instinctually roam in the first place.

As you said it is very uncommon, my dogs have a better chance of being struck by lightning then getting pyometra.

I did some more research on Pyometra last night, and it is far more common than I thought it was. Type in 'pyometra' in Google and the first page of surgery pictures and personal accounts will turn your stomach. The older a dog is, and the more heats it goes through without breeding the higher the risk of infection.

The worst thing about Pyometra is a draining Pyometra can mimic normal post heat discharge so often goes undetected. If your dog is a picky eater like Ruby always was, you may not notice that she is off her food more than usual. It's a long slow disease followed by a long slow recovery.

I forgot to mention that in addition to the $900 in vet bills I also had to take about 3 days total off of work. All that needs to be figured in when someone decides not to spay their dog.

If you are ok with your dogs being unaltered that's fine, but 99.9% of owners are not vigilant enough with their dogs. It is your choice and your right to have unaltered dogs, but please do not encourage others to follow suit.

Ruby was under breeding contract when I bought her - it was the only way I could bring her home so I agreed to it. Part of the contract stipulated that if she became pregnant while in my care and not under the direction of her breeder I would owe $1500 per puppy (the normal selling price) to the breeder. You can bet I was vigilant, especially as she was one of a litter of 8 and had the propensity to also have a large litter. However, yes, she did escape once when the front door did not latch completely and she opened it. She can also open the sliding glass door if it is not locked - that only leads to a fenced back yard, but plenty of dogs can just 6 foot fences. Pitbulls are smart, resourceful dogs - and we all know that if they are determined to do something they will often figure out how to do it.

And I'm just curious - you say you 'haven't had a pergnancy yet'. What will you do if and when one occurs? Is your dog from a line of dogs that has safe, stable temperaments and are free of genetic disorders? As you say that you do not plan to breed your dog, I would assume a pregnancy would be accidental, so you will probably not know the history of the male she breeds with. Will you spay and neuter all of the puppies immediately, as you will not know their genetic makeup? Are you ready and willing to take any of the puppies/dogs back at any point in their lives if the people you give/sell them to decide they don't want them? All of these questions directly relate to issues faced by every ethical breeder - and every owner of an intact dog.

This is not an attack, but honest questions. If you are encourageing people not to alter their dogs (which it sounds to me like you are, as you call it an unnessary surgery) you need to also inform them of all of the responsibilities that an untered dog intales.

Michelle
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Postby myers » Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:57 am

quote:



And I'm just curious - you say you 'haven't had a pergnancy yet'. What will you do if and when one occurs? Is your dog from a line of dogs that has safe, stable temperaments and are free of genetic disorders? As you say that you do not plan to breed your dog, I would assume a pregnancy would be accidental, so you will probably not know the history of the male she breeds with. Will you spay and neuter all of the puppies immediately, as you will not know their genetic makeup? Are you ready and willing to take any of the puppies/dogs back at any point in their lives if the people you give/sell them to decide they don't want them? All of these questions directly relate to issues faced by every ethical breeder - and every owner of an intact dog.



If and when one occurs? I have never had an accidental pregnancy, neither has any of my friends. If one did occur all the pups would have eccellent homes. I have people that have been asking me for years to breed harley so they could purchase one of his puppy's. I love the people that if you can't trace the genetic make up of a dog back to 1850 they should never have offspring. LMFAO!!!! Do you know how many mutts out there that are excellent pets. Not to say that we need more running around, because we surely don't.We also don't need any more "purebreds" either. There are way too many dogs that die in shelters everyday. And i'm not encouraging people to not spay/nueter their pet, everybody has a brain and can decide for themselfs, if they can't do that then the shouldn't even have animals.
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Postby mnp13 » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:20 am

myers wrote: I love the people that if you can't trace the genetic make up of a dog back to 1850 they should never have offspring. LMFAO!!!! Do you know how many mutts out there that are excellent pets.


I never said, nor implied that you need to know 150 years of your dogs lines. However, if you don't know your dogs parents and grandparents then you have no idea what you have genetics wise. If a parent or grand parent developed any disorder later in life do you want to pass that trait on? What about a sibling that developed hip dysplacisa? Just because your dog doesn't have a particualr malady diesn't mean they don't carry the genes for it. By knowing the dog's littermates and parents and grandparents you can get a better idea of temperament, health, size at maturity and a ton of other traits.

Mutts make great pets, I happen to own one. But making a great pet does not mean they have great genes to pass on.

And you never answered my question - if you breed your dog are you ready and willing to be responsible for each and every life you have then created?

And i'm not encouraging people to not spay/nueter their pet, everybody has a brain and can decide for themselfs, if they can't do that then the shouldn't even have animals.

When you tell someone a surgery is unnessary you are telling someone not to do it. The definition of 'unnessary' is 'Not necessary; needless.' So if you are telling someone that a spay is a needless surgery you are absolutely telling someone not to spay/neuter their pet.

Michelle
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Postby elegy » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:20 am

my dog was spayed by the shelter before i brought her home and she had no trouble at all, and i doubt they did bloodwork. i'd have preferred to have bloodwork done, but it wasn't up to me. (i had a jr wellness screening done at her first vet visit and everything came up fine, but what if it hadn't all been fine?)

as far as not spaying/neutering goes, i can't see why on earth you wouldn't do it unless you're planning to breed. the chances of a mishap during surgery, which can be greatly minimized by pre-op bloodwork, are so much smaller than the risks of things like pyometra or mammary tumors (something like 1 in 4 unspayed bitches is expected to develop a mammary tumor, and somewhere around 50% of mammary tumors are malignant) both of which require surgery much more complicated and risky than a simple spay.

if you're talking about minimizing risks, then i have to say spay, and spay early.
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Postby myers » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:04 am

And you never answered my question - if you breed your dog are you ready and willing to be responsible for each and every life you have then created?



My answer: ABSOLUTELY, If one of my dogs ever became pregnant I would make absolutely sure they went to a great home. I feel as though if your dog has puppies YOU the owner are 100% responsible for those dogs!!! You have to be a very responsible person to own an unaltered dog. My decisions that are right for me might not be responsible for someone else. Thats what makes this america, people having the right to make their own choices.


I never told anyone not to get their animal neutered/spayed. I call it unecessary surgery because it's just that. unecessary surgery.


You can call it whatever you want, but it has nothing to do with the immediate health of your dog.



This is a forum, it's where people go to have discussions, make friends, ask questions, and post answers. It's not a vetrinary dictionary!
I don't believe that anyone on here is an actual vet, so are you saying that everything said on this board should be strictly followed?? I surely hope not. It is mostly opinion and very little fact.

So i'm going to leave it at that. I have my opinion, and you have yours and everyone should decide for themselfs what is right for them and their pets.
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