B.A.R.F. 101

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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TooTall
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Postby TooTall » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:45 pm

sydking wrote:all this research is really doing my head in


You're not alone. I was really looking forward to a shopping list as well. The beggining of the thread looked promising for a dummy like me with the first post:

...but would it be possible for experienced barfers to make a post on barf?
I mean, start from the very, very basic steps and tell what to do/use and how to do and use it all?
As basic as it can possbily be?


I'm on dial-up and got to page 17. With sore eyes, I've given up. Unless posts have been removed, I don't think the thread achieves what it started out to do? I have an 11 yr old shepp cross in excellent shape from a great life of top of the line kibbles combined with N-R-G dehydrated RAW. Along with a highly active lifestyle, she looks 5. This is amazing because she had such a rough start. She literally grew up in a plastic dog kennel for the first 6 mnths. I've never seen a dog as a living skeleton before her. The SPCA had her for 2 months as she didn't look to pretty and everyone, but me, passed her by. We feared every health issue that could come to a Sheppard, would come to her. But no, she's been to the vet twice and I attribute it to the N-R-G RAW food. Now I live in the country for most of the year and can't get it here. I've had my pit mix for 20 months and he has no issues. But I wish to do better for these two and get them 100% off of kibble.

The best part is that I'm really fortunate in the sense that I live in a small city of 20,000 that happens to be in one of North America's best hunting areas. My local butcher is so busy cutting up assortments of game and is more than wiling to give me garbage cans filled with cuttings, organs, and bones that are not wanted for human consumption and are a hassle for him to deal with. I buy 25lb bags of meaty Elk bones for $5 USD. You should see my pups when I come home with complete legs, shoulder blade to toe. As well as this, my neighbor has a small farm that does free range chickens/beef/pork. Every fall at slaughter time I have access to garbage cans of the same thing; great raw/barf ingredients. I'm just iching to get them started on raw with all the resources so easily at my fingers. If someone could point out some page numbers within this 70 page thread that actually does spell it out step for step, I would be ever so grateful. Dial-up sucks and the two and three sentenced replies aren't helpful when trying to get an all-encompassing grip on this diet change/lifestyle.

Cheers

T

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:47 pm

TooTall wrote:
sydking wrote:all this research is really doing my head in


You're not alone. I was really looking forward to a shopping list as well. The beggining of the thread looked promising for a dummy like me with the first post:

...but would it be possible for experienced barfers to make a post on barf?
I mean, start from the very, very basic steps and tell what to do/use and how to do and use it all?
As basic as it can possbily be?


I'm on dial-up and got to page 17. With sore eyes, I've given up. Unless posts have been removed, I don't think the thread achieves what it started out to do?


Here's the thing, everyone does things differently and although there are some basic principals of feeding raw I think people are often hesitant to provide a recipe, shopping list or set of steps as reducing it down to that would not adequately communicate the individualization of diet and flexibility that comes with doing a bunch of research over a period of time.

That said, I sympathize with the overwhelming amount of info in this thread and the seeming wandering (though I think this is often just symptomatic of everyone doing things a bit differently) away from the topic at hand. So perhaps it would help if you asked specific question regarding those things which you need clarification about. You could also try skipping to about the middle of the thread as I think there were a bunch of people who started feeding raw a year or so back, which resulted in a bunch of questions on the basics (in fact, even if you just read all of my panicked questions from about a year ago, you could probably learn a lot from my mess ups lol).

sydking
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Postby sydking » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:31 pm

FransterDoo wrote:
PAX wrote:
pitgrrl wrote:People certainly raise puppies on raw, but a pup may not be the ideal test dog for your first go at a raw diet. With an adult dog you have a great margin for temporary error, so it might be a good idea to get a bunch of research and real life experience under your belt before trying with a puppy.

That's just my opinion of course, I don't know if I'd feel totally comfortable feeding a puppy raw and I feel pretty confident with my adult dogs.


Alright, because we have a 3 Month old pup. We feed her Beneful by Purina. She'll eat it but only a little of it. And it seems like she does't like it to much.


I agree with pitgrll. My boy Hank had his first raw meal at 9 weeks. My teammate has raised 4 puppies on raw.

Rather that going raw - lets' get your pup off of Beneful. It's really not a great food and probably part of the reason why she's not eating. It's similar to taking your toddler to McDonald's every day.



what were you feeding each day?? a bit of an idea would really help

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TooTall
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Postby TooTall » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:14 pm

pitgrrl wrote:
TooTall wrote:
sydking wrote:all this research is really doing my head in


You're not alone. I was really looking forward to a shopping list as well. The beggining of the thread looked promising for a dummy like me with the first post:

...but would it be possible for experienced barfers to make a post on barf?
I mean, start from the very, very basic steps and tell what to do/use and how to do and use it all?
As basic as it can possbily be?


I'm on dial-up and got to page 17. With sore eyes, I've given up. Unless posts have been removed, I don't think the thread achieves what it started out to do?


So perhaps it would help if you asked specific question regarding those things which you need clarification about. You could also try skipping to about the middle of the thread as I think there were a bunch of people who started feeding raw a year or so back, which resulted in a bunch of questions on the basics (in fact, even if you just read all of my panicked questions from about a year ago, you could probably learn a lot from my mess ups ).


Thanks very much, pitgrrl. I'll go hound a friends high-speed connection for a while and quickly copy/paste relevant/intriguing info. I just got back from the grocery store and bought a wack of large rubbermaids for the freezer/fridge.

Thanks again,

T

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FransterDoo
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Postby FransterDoo » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:19 pm

sydking wrote:
FransterDoo wrote: My boy Hank had his first raw meal at 9 weeks. My teammate has raised 4 puppies on raw.

Rather that going raw - lets' get your pup off of Beneful. It's really not a great food and probably part of the reason why she's not eating. It's similar to taking your toddler to McDonald's every day.



what were you feeding each day?? a bit of an idea would really help



I'll quote myself from yesterday:

FransterDoo wrote:
For 9 week old pups, I do bone-in chicken breasts and leg quarter (often scoring the flesh so it's easier to rip and eat), heart, organs in very small amounts, bonelss beef-lamb-goat-pork. turkey necks. Poultry feet are also good.

I also typically make a meat-veggie grind for my pups since it's easier to do one of the 3 meals a day out of a bowl.


More important than what I was feeding is what you can get a hold of and what you can afford. I'll be honest that in certain parts of the US and other countries, raw is not affordable. That may determine if raw is for you. Money's tight everywhere these days so I think it is an important thing to consider.

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Postby sydking » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:47 am

Can I feed puppies on raw food?


You most certainly can. And the good news is that unlike the commercial dog foods who recommend a confusing range of foods for different age groups, raw food fed dogs are fed the same regardless of age.

Of course, you won't want to feed that little puppy huge marrow bones! So, use common sense in your feeding.

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html



so really this mean i can feed what an adult dog would eat. just 10% of the dogs weight.





i don't want to start on kibble and let her grow up with poor eating habits and not learning how to chew at a young age so im going to start on raw no matter what


what did you start your pup on when feeding raw?

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Postby sydking » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:49 am

FransterDoo wrote:
For 9 week old pups, I do bone-in chicken breasts and leg quarter (often scoring the flesh so it's easier to rip and eat), heart, organs in very small amounts, bonelss beef-lamb-goat-pork. turkey necks. Poultry feet are also good.

I also typically make a meat-veggie grind for my pups since it's easier to do one of the 3 meals a day out of a bowl.


could you break that into 3 meals? what did you feed each meal?

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Postby FransterDoo » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:42 pm

sydking wrote:
FransterDoo wrote:
For 9 week old pups, I do bone-in chicken breasts and leg quarter (often scoring the flesh so it's easier to rip and eat), heart, organs in very small amounts, bonelss beef-lamb-goat-pork. turkey necks. Poultry feet are also good.

I also typically make a meat-veggie grind for my pups since it's easier to do one of the 3 meals a day out of a bowl.


could you break that into 3 meals? what did you feed each meal?



Sorry but no. After spending tons of time typing out menus for people here, most of whom disappear or stop posting regularly...I don't do free menu advice.

In addtion, it's much more important to know WHY you feed items and to acheive balance over time. You still didn't answer my question as to what items are easy to obtain *for you* and if you've done any reseach on pricing.

anyways, Hank's 2 1/2 now - I can't always remember his puppy years.

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:18 pm

I found these photos, which I think El_EmDubya posted a link to way back when, helpful. Obviously they're not going to be any help if one hasn't done research and understands why the various elements in the meals are included, but at least in my case seeing these helped me synthesize all the info that was swimming around my head.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/illonahaus/sets/872344/

sydking
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Postby sydking » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:06 am

FransterDoo wrote:
sydking wrote:
FransterDoo wrote:
For 9 week old pups, I do bone-in chicken breasts and leg quarter (often scoring the flesh so it's easier to rip and eat), heart, organs in very small amounts, bonelss beef-lamb-goat-pork. turkey necks. Poultry feet are also good.

I also typically make a meat-veggie grind for my pups since it's easier to do one of the 3 meals a day out of a bowl.


could you break that into 3 meals? what did you feed each meal?



Sorry but no. After spending tons of time typing out menus for people here, most of whom disappear or stop posting regularly...I don't do free menu advice.




In addtion, it's much more important to know WHY you feed items and to acheive balance over time. You still didn't answer my question as to what items are easy to obtain *for you* and if you've done any reseach on pricing.

anyways, Hank's 2 1/2 now - I can't always remember his puppy years.




i can get anything and everything down here in the city. theres atleast a min of two butchers in every corner

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jewelsdaddy
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Postby jewelsdaddy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:36 am

Yikes, 74 lbs of veggies, I thought I had it tough doing about 10-20 lbs at a time through the grinder, and you do it in the food processor. I tip my hat to you. Those pictures are great though.

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TooTall
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Postby TooTall » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:17 am

pitgrrl wrote:I found these photos, which I think El_EmDubya posted a link to way back when, helpful. Obviously they're not going to be any help if one hasn't done research and understands why the various elements in the meals are included, but at least in my case seeing these helped me synthesize all the info that was swimming around my head.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/illonahaus/sets/872344/


Perfect! Thanks you so much!

sydking
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Postby sydking » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:33 pm

pitgrrl i can get anything down here where i live,

what do you suggest for a pup. i don't want a meal plan or anything.

what meats and bones ect would you suggest to feed?

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Beowulf
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Postby Beowulf » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:13 pm

So, why are stainless steel bowls suggested for raw feeding instead of heavy duty plastic dog bowls? Is it for sanitary purposes? Does the plastic retain some of the moisture and make it dangerous?

I ask because I recently made the switch to stainless steel and my dogs push the damned bowls everywhere. They are too light. Plus, Pandora's reflection in the bowl scares the little nitwit.

I was very conscientious about sanitizing the plastic bowls after feedings but I still thought stainless steel would be better. But not if they can't eat the food.

Thoughts anyone?

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pitgrrl
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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:25 pm

sydking wrote:pitgrrl i can get anything down here where i live,

what do you suggest for a pup. i don't want a meal plan or anything.

what meats and bones ect would you suggest to feed?


Honestly, I've never had a puppy, much less fed one raw, so I'd be really hesitant to give any advice on that.

I also have funny dogs, so I've gotten used to feeding in the way that works for them specifically, which doesn't include the amount of variety that one would probably ideally want and may not work for other dogs.

To give you an idea, in spite of all that, I feed whole chicken, duck, turkey, all with bone and guts included, eggs, with a variety of herbs and supplements (specific to their needs) with the occasional sweet potato cubes.

Beowulf wrote:So, why are stainless steel bowls suggested for raw feeding instead of heavy duty plastic dog bowls? Is it for sanitary purposes? Does the plastic retain some of the moisture and make it dangerous?


Personally I use stainless steel because plastic gives Basil acne, I've always heard you can't really clean it completely, it tends to get gouges/wear that allows bacteria to grow in the ridges, etc.

I got so sick of the bowls sliding around though that I went out and found ones with a rubber base, kind of like this, only the bowl part comes out of the base for easier cleaning.


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