B.A.R.F. 101

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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WackyJacki
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby WackyJacki » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:51 pm

:nana: :nana: :nana:

Awesome!!! I made the switch almost a year ago and will never look back!!

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HELP?! Raw Diet

Postby Pictures4Pitbulls » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:07 am

Okay for years I've been feeding Diamond Naturals switching between varieties to mix it up for the boys, but I've always wanted to feed RAW, but honestly I'm a baby when it comes to touching raw meat so I haven't. Well, a friend of ours feeds RAW and is giving us a deal on the meat (I don't know much about it besides that's what he's fed his dogs forever), so I've decided to take the plunge. But I've looked all over the internet and I'm kind of confused and no one really gives you any advice on how to switch from kibble to RAW. Do I still mix kibble in with the meat like you would if you switch kibble and slowly ween them off? Or do I just buy both and mix it together? Do I have to supplement the food with vitamins (I've seen sources saying yes and no...)? Right now they get Kelp Help on their food daily to help with their dry skin. But I am so confused, :huh?: do they have to have bones (I don't know if the meat I'm getting has them or not)? Plus I've got two that are scarfers, they just inhale their food and I've read a lot about teaching them to chew, am I going to have to hand feed them for awhile?

Please any help would be greatly appreciated! :pray

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Re: HELP?! Raw Diet

Postby FransterDoo » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:01 pm

I can't answer the majority of your questions without knowing exactly what you are getting from your friend.

That being said, don't mix raw and kibble. I've always switched dogs cold turkey. one meal's kibble and the next is raw. You can get some yucky poops for a day or two but that's about it

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Re: HELP?! Raw Diet

Postby suzi » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:24 pm

Here is a "Quote" from an email I recieved when I went to change Bella's diet...Worked great,,,no trouble switching at all!

You can fast Bella by feeding her usual supper then, after that, only feed clean water and/or chicken broth as often as she would like it until supper time the next day then do the switch completely. This type of fast is easier as the first 12 hours or so are overnight hours when the dog would not be eating anyway. The next 12 hours she can be drinking the broth to help cleanse her body and to help her feel full

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Re: HELP?! Raw Diet

Postby suzi » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:45 pm

Pictures4pitbulls...Check your PM's :)

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Re: HELP?! Raw Diet

Postby Kirstan » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:10 am

I switched Coal over the period of six months - he was on a fast growing puppy protocol but she gave me the go ahead to switch to raw. I mixed kibble and raw together or sometimes just kibble one meal and raw the next. No issues that I saw. Mine is premixed and ground and delivered so all I did was add a couple supps and a vitamin.

I'm vegan - if I can do it, anyone can. I used to grind my own but the grinder is too small to do large quantities. If you're going to sit around and grind the chicken and turkey necks, I suggest a scotch...

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:43 pm

Fantastic thread!
I want to put Gigi on a raw diet, and as soon as these 78 pages stop playing Jai Alai in my head I'll be able to sit down and formulate a menu plan. Maybe...
:huh?:

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea of feeding her such a little amount compared to what she eats on commercial food. I'm 5'8", weigh 162 pounds, and could devour a 24 ounce steak with all the fixing and trimmings and still want more! Maybe it's just the tattoos that want more? ;)

But I guess it's a case of "it is what it is".


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby WackyJacki » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:06 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:Fantastic thread!
I want to put Gigi on a raw diet, and as soon as these 78 pages stop playing Jai Alai in my head I'll be able to sit down and formulate a menu plan. Maybe...
:huh?:

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea of feeding her such a little amount compared to what she eats on commercial food. I'm 5'8", weigh 162 pounds, and could devour a 24 ounce steak with all the fixing and trimmings and still want more! Maybe it's just the tattoos that want more? ;)

But I guess it's a case of "it is what it is".


Jack


Haha well in actual caloric and fat intake, my dogs are eating significantly more then they were on commercial dog food and yet they look more lean and muscular then ever.

Stella stays around the 52-55lb range and eats, on average, roughly 1000 calories a day and loads of high fat, high cholesterol meals (i.e. fatty beef/lamb/pork pieces) along with lower calorie things like chicken and fish. She doesn't get the lean cuts of meat that are most of us people eat. It's too expensive AND doesn't provide her with enough calories.

The difference between COOKED animal fat and UNCOOKED animal fat is a world apart. If she ate the animal fat she consumes cooked, she would no doubt be fat and likely suffer from pancreatitis (sp?).

Do your research, get yourself comfortable with the idea, and go for it. I don't know many people who try raw and want to EVER go back to commercial dog food.....

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:12 pm

WackyJacki wrote:
Haha well in actual caloric and fat intake, my dogs are eating significantly more then they were on commercial dog food and yet they look more lean and muscular then ever.

Stella stays around the 52-55lb range and eats, on average, roughly 1000 calories a day and loads of high fat, high cholesterol meals (i.e. fatty beef/lamb/pork pieces) along with lower calorie things like chicken and fish. She doesn't get the lean cuts of meat that are most of us people eat. It's too expensive AND doesn't provide her with enough calories.

The difference between COOKED animal fat and UNCOOKED animal fat is a world apart. If she ate the animal fat she consumes cooked, she would no doubt be fat and likely suffer from pancreatitis (sp?).

Do your research, get yourself comfortable with the idea, and go for it. I don't know many people who try raw and want to EVER go back to commercial dog food.....


I completely understand the concept of net caloric intake versus quantity, as the preponderance of commercially available dog food is more fill than nutrition. I.E.: The whole "quality versus quantity" philosophy.

It's just there is SO much information available out there, that it seems a daunting task to really nail down a good "starting menu". Some say add grains, some say no. Some fast, some don't. Filtered water, unfiltered water. Some say yes to veggies, some say no. Some say supplement, some say don't. Kelp, fish oil, what type of fish oil, meat bones, what type of meat bones, garlic, etc. My brain just did a 180 while I typed that...

I have full access to the items needed, and at a price that makes it almost a no-brainer to put her on it. The benefits of condition, health, and appearance more than justify the small amount of additional labor involved in acquiring and preparing the meals. Hell, I prep my own meal menus with far more preparation and diligence. I definitely don't mind doing it in the LEAST. I realize there are no two canines' alike that will respond to identical diets, but throw ME a bone! Give a 2 page starters guide book with laid out menu choices/recommendations, big colorful pictures (even cartoons will do. I LOVE cartoons!), and a plethora of monosyllabic words. Call it "Jack's idiot's guide to a raw diet".
I'd certainly buy it!!!

:D


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby WackyJacki » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:21 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:
WackyJacki wrote:
Haha well in actual caloric and fat intake, my dogs are eating significantly more then they were on commercial dog food and yet they look more lean and muscular then ever.

Stella stays around the 52-55lb range and eats, on average, roughly 1000 calories a day and loads of high fat, high cholesterol meals (i.e. fatty beef/lamb/pork pieces) along with lower calorie things like chicken and fish. She doesn't get the lean cuts of meat that are most of us people eat. It's too expensive AND doesn't provide her with enough calories.

The difference between COOKED animal fat and UNCOOKED animal fat is a world apart. If she ate the animal fat she consumes cooked, she would no doubt be fat and likely suffer from pancreatitis (sp?).

Do your research, get yourself comfortable with the idea, and go for it. I don't know many people who try raw and want to EVER go back to commercial dog food.....


I completely understand the concept of net caloric intake versus quantity, as the preponderance of commercially available dog food is more fill than nutrition. I.E.: The whole "quality versus quantity" philosophy.

It's just there is SO much information available out there, that it seems a daunting task to really nail down a good "starting menu". Some say add grains, some say no. Some fast, some don't. Filtered water, unfiltered water. Some say yes to veggies, some say no. Some say supplement, some say don't. Kelp, fish oil, what type of fish oil, meat bones, what type of meat bones, garlic, etc. My brain just did a 180 while I typed that...

I have full access to the items needed, and at a price that makes it almost a no-brainer to put her on it. The benefits of condition, health, and appearance more than justify the small amount of additional labor involved in acquiring and preparing the meals. Hell, I prep my own meal menus with far more preparation and diligence. I definitely don't mind doing it in the LEAST. I realize there are no two canines' alike that will respond to identical diets, but throw ME a bone! Give a 2 page starters guide book with laid out menu choices/recommendations, big colorful pictures (even cartoons will do. I LOVE cartoons!), and a plethora of monosyllabic words. Call it "Jack's idiot's guide to a raw diet".
I'd certainly buy it!!!

:D


Jack

roflmao

I feel ya, believe me! I was in your shoes about a year ago. With a plethora of information and many, many schools of thought, it can be very overwhelming and confusing.

After months of research and careful consideration, I finally said, "Nature knows best!" Dogs are carnivores through and through. From mouth to pooper they are built to eat and digest meat and bone. This eliminates the need for grains/veggies/etc. That right there takes out a TON of confusion AND time preparation. Some people/books will try to tell you otherwise, but the fact that dogs are carnivores is simply not disputable.

Prey model (i.e. NATURE'S MODEL) consists of feeding your dog roughly 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs... half of which should be liver. And do I stick rigidly to this model? Helllll no lol Some days they might get a huge turkey neck (high bone ratio) and other days they might get no bone at all. Some weeks quite a bit of liver, some weeks just a pinch. I also don't weigh anything. I did at first, but learned how to eyeball it. I was strict and adhered to a rigid diet at first, then loosened up over time. You really have to look at the whole picture.

Some dogs don't do well on pork, others do fine. Most do just fine on poultry/beef/pork/fish/eggs etc.

Don't get sucked into the supplement vacuum. Seriously, a lot of people WAY over supplement. I use fish oil, bone meal powder on non-bone meals (keeps the poop firmer), and a gluco/chondroitin supplement for joints. That's it. I have a few other things that are only given on an as needed basis (i.e. Valerian Root for my nervous nelly dog lol). A lot of people use no supplements.

Believe me, after you do it for awhile, it really becomes no big deal and you'll see how really NOT confusing it is lol

Good websites:
www.rawlearning.com
www.rawfeddogs.net

There's a ton of great books on the subject, but if you're looking for a really simple, straight forward book, here are a couple that I like (both are based mainly on prey model style feeding):

Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth MacDonald: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Dog-Food-Make ... pd_sim_b_1

Work Wonders: Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale: http://www.amazon.com/Work-Wonders-Feed ... 091&sr=1-2

Good luck! :)

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Ooooo, they made a site just for me!
http://www.rawfeddogs.net


"Pork Neck Recipe: Take the pork neck bone and hand it to the dog."
"Oxtail Recipe: Take the oxtail and give it to your dog."
roflmao

Thanks for the tips, Jacki

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby El_EmDubya » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:57 pm

:goodpost:

I agree on ALL points - shocking, I know ;)

One more thing on the supplements: Unless your dog has health or sport related depletion, you should be able to feed Raw with minimal supplementation - For instance, Salmon Oil to replace the Omegas that should be found in meats naturally, but currently aren't, due to our farming practices. Sports can also take a lot out of the dog and their bodies, so they'll likely need additional help to rid their body of waste chemicals and to aid repair, if you are actively competing and managing sports related injuries. Older dogs may need additional supplementation for joints, and yes, nervous dogs can be helped with a little herbal relaxants :)) .

Just don't go overboard, otherwise you won't know what is working, and what isn't.

I'd start with whole chickens + Salmon Oil for the first two weeks. You aren't going to hurt your dog, they are scavengers after all and you'll learn portions while your dog is learning to eat raw meat. Then start adding in new foods/meats weekly to determine if your dog is responding well. (Obviously if your dog has exploding poops while on chicken, you might want to switch to fish or an other meat during the intro phase.)

Don't stress, keep it simple, and enjoy the process. It is a bit of a dance, but once you get the rhythm it is easy.

LMW

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby FransterDoo » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:31 pm

LMW pesters me from time to time about writing a raw food guide - it's on my hharddrive 1/2 written. Maybe now that I have more time, I'll acutally get on it.

It is really hard to wade through all the information and figure out how to start feeding. Believe me, 5 years later and I'm still tweaking things.

I often suggest that depending on someone's comfort level with food handling and acces to product that they either start off super simple (ie. chicken and just chicken for 1-2 weeks) or super easy to serve (a pre-packed raw like Primal or Stella and Chewey's) for 1-2 weeks. Then you can start working in a variety of things.

FWIW, I feed about 80% prey-model (pork, lamb, beef, chicken, fish, turkey) and provide a meat/veggie grind in the morning with supplmentation specifically for my pack and then each dog.

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby WackyJacki » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:42 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:Ooooo, they made a site just for me!
http://www.rawfeddogs.net


"Pork Neck Recipe: Take the pork neck bone and hand it to the dog."
"Oxtail Recipe: Take the oxtail and give it to your dog."
roflmao

Thanks for the tips, Jacki


See how easy!!
roflmao

But seriously, it is!

I second starting on chicken. Some suggest starting with bonier chicken pieces and perhaps removing most of the skin the first few meals to lessen the likelihood of loose poop.

Stella had loose poop for a couple of days and vomited several hours after her first meal (just bile). Fiona, who always did poorly on kibble, didn't have a single issue. :huh?:

Of course I was in a total panic when she puked and thought perhaps I had made a mistake lol but I stuck with it and was in awe over the results.

There's a bit of tweaking involved, but nothing crazy.

Feel free to pm me if you have any questions. I'm no expert and don't claim to be, but I can tell you what has worked for me and perhaps lead you to some helpful resources ;)

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby WackyJacki » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:45 pm

El_EmDubya wrote: nervous dogs can be helped with a little herbal relaxants :)) .


Valerian root is fantastic stuff! Helps my nervous spazz during high stress situations :)

Smells like dirty feet though lol


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