B.A.R.F. 101

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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LifeisthePits
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:14 am

I don't think Valerian root was the "little herbal relaxant" that was being referred to.

lol


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby El_EmDubya » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:24 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:I don't think Valerian root was the "little herbal relaxant" that was being referred to.

lol


Jack


Jack, I was referring to appropriate herbs, not Pot. There are many herbal relaxers available to dog owners with behavioral issues. Always contact a well trained holistic Vet before using them on your pet.

LMW

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:41 pm

El_EmDubya wrote:
LifeisthePits wrote:I don't think Valerian root was the "little herbal relaxant" that was being referred to.

lol


Jack


Jack, I was referring to appropriate herbs, not Pot. There are many herbal relaxers available to dog owners with behavioral issues. Always contact a well trained holistic Vet before using them on your pet.

LMW


I know that, LMW.
I hope you didn't take offense to it, as it was a joke.


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby El_EmDubya » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:44 pm

Naw, I wasn't offended, just worried that people would read this and get *ideas.

I worked in an emergency vet clinic, as a tech for a while, so I saw a lot of bad drug/stash related injuries :sad: - so I take that and alcohol poisoning a little more seriously than most.

LMW

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby GSDBulldog » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:56 pm

I have two questions,

The first stemming from another thread. Why is the general consensus to avoid feeding kibble and raw at the same time? FransterDoo said to simply switch cold turkey, but I switched over a period of about 2 weeks with no ill results. I know it will vary by dog, I am just curious as to the reasoning behind it.

Also, I feed one of my dogs raw during the show season. But a quality kibble the rest of the year. He looks and does great on raw, but I miss the convenience of kibble (And it is easier to keep weight on him during the off-months). Am I doing any harm? He never has any sort of digestive upset, and he always looks and acts the same (Great, IMO lol ) regardless of his diet.

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:09 pm

From what I have read and understand, please feel free to correct me as I may have overlooked something, the reason is that the kibble takes substantially longer to digest than raw. So feeding kibble then raw can lead to digestive issues as the raw is already "done" and ready to "head out", while the kibble is still being "worked on" further ahead in the "tunnel" and not ready for the exit trip.


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby FransterDoo » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:13 pm

GSDBulldog wrote:I have two questions,

The first stemming from another thread. Why is the general consensus to avoid feeding kibble and raw at the same time? FransterDoo said to simply switch cold turkey, but I switched over a period of about 2 weeks with no ill results. I know it will vary by dog, I am just curious as to the reasoning behind it.


For me, I like to know that whats going on with the dog (poop quality, skin issues, hunger, etc) is based solely on the raw food. I do think that raw tends to get digested sooner, depending on what you are feeding, and the "swelling" factor of kibble - so what in the bowl is fine but may be too much in the tummy later.

Also, I feed one of my dogs raw during the show season. But a quality kibble the rest of the year. He looks and does great on raw, but I miss the convenience of kibble (And it is easier to keep weight on him during the off-months). Am I doing any harm? He never has any sort of digestive upset, and he always looks and acts the same (Great, IMO lol ) regardless of his diet.


IMO, no. I understand that people may do this. If it was me, I would switch over night. For example, dinner is kibble and breakfast is raw. I don't have any scientific evidence for that one but I find is easier that switching between breakfast and dinner.

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:20 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:From what I have read and understand, please feel free to correct me as I may have overlooked something, the reason is that the kibble takes substantially longer to digest than raw. So feeding kibble then raw can lead to digestive issues as the raw is already "done" and ready to "head out", while the kibble is still being "worked on" further ahead in the "tunnel" and not ready for the exit trip.


Jack

SHOULD read: "So feeding raw then kibble"



FransterDoo:
Opinion on this site, please?
http://diamondpaws.com/health/barfadult.htm


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby Niki » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:52 pm

love this thread
feeding deer/moose/bear RAW is their any issues with potentual lime dease transfer ???
secend ? i can get whole but guted fish pinks/salmon/springs/trout/dollies for a $1 each
do i feed whole as is ?? or do i need to treat them like pork and need to freeze for a time

BARFing for 2 months ..and lovin it :headbang:

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby FransterDoo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:31 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:
FransterDoo
Opinion on this site, please?
http://diamondpaws.com/health/barfadult.htm


Jack


Sorry, I missed this.

* IMO and IME Billinghurst's diet is too heavy on the bone. Then the dogs poop out these hard, white/beige poops and it looks like it hurts. I also think that meat is more important as a food.
* I don't do the 3 or 4 oils they suggest and stick with Salmon Oil. I find it easier to remember/prep/feed rather that having multiple oils on hand.
*I agree on including a joint supplement for any dogs that are active or over 4.5/5 years old.
* I prefer to have most folks steer away from chicken necks or wings. My 14-pound dog can eat them but my bigger dogs can try to swallow them whole (BAD!)
* I think that the veggie list is a little wack-o. Bell peppers? Tomatoes? Rominae? I prefer kale, collard greens, swiss chard and honestly anything I can get on sale.
* I don't do large wieght bearing bones. For me, this is cow leg bones, neck bones, anything that handles the stress of a cow sized body.
* Additionally, I find that it's much more easier to feed the ground portion in the AM since you can do bowls and it goes faster. Large or complicated portions of an animal can take a long time.


hope that helps!

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby LifeisthePits » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:34 pm

Thanks for the reply, Fran!

Well, as of right now Gigi's diet consists of only chicken. Necks, backs, legs, organs (in moderation), and breast meat. I don't grind anything, and wings kind of scare me a bit.
Her poop is on the dry side (compared to a kibble diet), a lot smaller in total volume, and maybe only once a day or so versus 3-4 a day on kibble. There is no indication of pain on defecation, she just squats and goes.
I have noticed the difference in opinion and ingrediants of BARF versus raw, and tend to lean towards the raw side. I laughed at some of the suggested vegetables too, and thought it would suffice to just go to Taco Bell and get it all wrapped up in one easy to go package!
I feed Gigi by hand and make her take "bite size" chomps/rips by covering what I don't want her to grab with my fingers, as that prevents the "grab, run, swallow, and choke". She hasn't hit my fingers (yet?), and eats quite gently. Same goes for bones. Also gives me that "bonding feeling" versus just throwing cups of kibble into a bowl and watching her chow down on it. She watches me while she's ripping, chewing, and gnawing and just wags her tail, haha.
I essentially formulated her diet based on what I have read here and adjusted it on what I "think" would be good for her. Also have to note the total cost for her food is somewhere in the $ 0.28 per pound area. Which is quite better than the $1.25 per pound of commercial bagged food (and how much of that commercial food doesn't get "used" and just gets left in a pile in the yard. Talk about throwing money away!).
I also agree on the meat as more important than bone, and Gigi get's no veggies yet because I can't remember the last time I saw Nat Geo do a special on the grazing habits of wild dogs. Once she's "set" with the diet I'll slowly introduce veggies, eggs, and fish oil into the mix for the additional vitamins and benefits, she's only 4 months old and has been on the raw diet for 2 weeks, but so far so good. I also give her a little less than a teaspoon of plain non-dairy yogurt with her morning feeding.
Yep, it's a lot more involved and harder than just feeding her from a bag. But the cost savings and knowing she's actually getting something good for her outweighs the convenience of bagged food. Plus, it's not like it takes 5 hours to prepare her meals, haha.

But I wanted to thank those that helped me (ESPECIALLY Fransterdoo and WackyJacki !!!) in formulating my plans and helping me understand that while raw MAY seem overwhelming and complex, it really isn't.

Feel free to fire out any other suggestions!


Jack

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby FransterDoo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:02 pm

LifeisthePits wrote:Her poop is on the dry side (compared to a kibble diet), a lot smaller in total volume, and maybe only once a day or so versus 3-4 a day on kibble. There is no indication of pain on defecation, she just squats and goes.

That sounds totally fine. Less crap in typically means less crap out. Honestly, one of our got a hold of a whole box of Zuke's mini-bakes and ate them. He pooped like 18million times and they were huge - ugh!


I also agree on the meat as more important than bone, and Gigi get's no veggies yet because I can't remember the last time I saw Nat Geo do a special on the grazing habits of wild dogs. Once she's "set" with the diet I'll slowly introduce veggies, eggs, and fish oil into the mix for the additional vitamins and benefits, she's only 4 months old and has been on the raw diet for 2 weeks, but so far so good. I also give her a little less than a teaspoon of plain non-dairy yogurt with her morning feeding.


2 weeks on just chicken is typically the high end of what I suggest. You could totally go ahead and start introducing new items into her diet at this point.

If you aren't doing organs, that ould be good. Just a chicke liver with maybe a bonier bone. and Salmon Oil. That's where I'd start off.

I'd also start giving a new protein a try. Maybe every other day or so.

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby Meaghan Edwards » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:39 pm

Just gave my two their first RMBs. Matilda LOVED it, even pulled the bone back to get to the marrow, but I think it'll take a little while for Suki to get into it, I think she was a touch intimidated by it.

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Bryan Morris
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby Bryan Morris » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:49 am

I'll be forever indebted to the contributors of this thread!

I've read this thread and I've taken the plunge. I'm however finetuning and therefore I have a few questions for the resident experts.

1. The average consumption is this weight including bones or bones are to be added separate to the calculated meal weight? If so, what amount of bones should be added?

2. What can I supplement bone for? I live on the islands and we import everything. So we get our meats more or less ready to sell for human consumption. I've however found a supermarket that will supply me with beef but no bone, periodically I will be able to get goat and sheep and lamb but that will not be on a consitent basis. If I decide a few times per week to still give them bone fit for human consumption e.g Ox tail. How often should I do so?

3. How often and how much Kelp and Alfalfa should I administer to my dogs? (One is 1 year and the other is 6 months)

Thanks for all the help.

Bryan Morris

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Bryan Morris
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby Bryan Morris » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:21 pm

Yes, I did make the plunge an I'm seeking to streamline. Don't flame me as my dogs seem to have a allergy for their current kibbles they were using so this caused the jump. The best meal we have here on island (as per the http://www.dogfood analysis.com) is Eagle pak which does not rate too high. Purina a/o Pedigree is not an option. One of my dogs seem to no longer go with it so I had to try and do what's best for the dogs. I've started feeding the dog raw (Prey Model) and as I'm doing so I'm reading up more and more.

I've started feeding based on the 3% factor as the dog is just 5 months but have read somewhere that a dog that young should be eating much more than that? Is this really so? If so, what formula should I then use as determining the amount of food I should provide for the dog?

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

Bryan Morris


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