B.A.R.F. 101

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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby willyg44 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:11 pm

Can anyone tell me if these tips on this site are all factual? Especially the substituting eggs for organ meat? Thanks.
http://www.skansen.com/nutrition/diet.htm
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby kaytenmags » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:07 pm

willyg44 wrote:Can anyone tell me if these tips on this site are all factual? Especially the substituting eggs for organ meat? Thanks.
http://www.skansen.com/nutrition/diet.htm

i take issue with a few things on that site.

RAW LIVER - give 2-3 pieces 3 times a week, or any other organ meat; heart, kidney or tripe. Dogs must have organ meat weekly – lack of taurine – an amino acid abundant in hearts will cause dogs to seizure.

as far as i'm concerned, liver is NOT optional. i feed about 5% of my dogs diet as liver, and 5% as kidney/spleen/other organ. heart is a muscle meat, not an organ.

RAW EGG YOLK – Raw egg yolk – one or more daily. Boiled or scrambled eggs are fine too. Offer raw egg yolk to the dogs you are not feeding raw liver or other raw organ meats. Be sure you use egg yolks from chickens fed free range - it will say so on the box. I highly recommend one egg daily to all dogs. Give 7 or more raw egg yolks and nothing else is necessary on days you are very busy

wow, don't even know where to begin.
egg is NOT a substitute for liver. does my dog get the occasional egg? of course! she loves them, and they add variety. seven egg yolks in one day, and nothing else? umm... can we say "tapass"? lol

i also don't agree with supplementing with vitamin C. a healthy dog should produce that anyways, and i've read that over supplementing it can cause the dogs natural production of the vitamin to go out of whack.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby El_EmDubya » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:34 pm

:goodpost:
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby April » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:00 pm

I have a few questions I been thinking for the longest time to go raw and I mean LONGEST time
I asked a question here and there a few months back.
Anyways I have a few questions,

Have any of your dogs had any problems (choking, etc) on raw?
How much do you all spend a week, In NY a piece of lamb rib cost as much as 8 bucks (3-4 dollars a pound).
My dog doesn't like raw egss, fat free plain yogurt, or other fruits so should I worry if she only eats the meat
Won't her diet be unbalanced.
As for how much I should feed her, my girl is about 53-55 pounds last time she was 51 pounds (3 months ago).
She's one year old.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby April » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:02 pm

Forgot, damn Edit button.
Anyone know a butcher shop in Brooklyn NY I could buy the marrow bones, oxtail
In the stores they sell them really chop down small size not safe for my dog.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby willyg44 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:01 pm

kaytenmags thanks for the post. I'm on the second week of feeding Leo raw and I'm finding a lot of sources that are saying different things. I guess I'll stick with what is said in this thread, as all of the dogs in this forum seem to be doing fine on raw! I did have another question if someone doesn't mind answering. Is it okay to feed just chicken? If they get an 80-10-10 meat/bone/organ ratio? With an egg a 4-5 times a week? I ask because I haven't been able to find a butcher/meat market near where I am in Gainesville, FL (If anyone has one PLEASE LET ME KNOW) and it's really quite expensive buying it in supermarkets. I wanted to give him a week of red meat to see if he does well on it, but I'm not going to spend like 30 bucks in 1 week for a few pounds of meat for him! I've just been feeding chicken necks/backs and am going to see how he likes leg quarters tonight. Or if there are other suggestions for my situation, please let me know, thanks a bunch!
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby kaytenmags » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:48 am

April wrote:Have any of your dogs had any problems (choking, etc) on raw?

no, but my dog does regularly choke on small treats. she's a gulper/inhaler, so she'll take a treat very fast and then a few seconds later she'll cough and it will shoot out of her mouth. and then she'll eat it again. she's gross lol
kibble was much more of a choking hazard for her than raw!

April wrote:How much do you all spend a week, In NY a piece of lamb rib cost as much as 8 bucks (3-4 dollars a pound).
My dog doesn't like raw egss, fat free plain yogurt, or other fruits so should I worry if she only eats the meat
Won't her diet be unbalanced.
As for how much I should feed her, my girl is about 53-55 pounds last time she was 51 pounds (3 months ago).
She's one year old.

i don't know how much i spend in a week, it depends what's on sale. i buy chicken when it's $1/lb, i get a beef mix from my butcher that's about $1/lb, i stock up on pork when it goes on sale for less than $1/lb (but that's not often enough, so i usually spend more $$ on pork). i've also been known to pick up strange things like camel and kangaroo, but that's big bucks and isn't a staple of her diet. i'd guess i probably spend on average, about $50/mo or there abouts. might be less, but i doubt it's more.

as for fruit, my dog doesn't get fruit/veg unless it's levtovers from my plate (or the kids). as long as you can feed them meat, edible bone, and organ meat, they'll be fine.

it's usually recommended to feed 2-3% of their ideal body weight, but that depends on the dog. my girl is (ideally) about 45-50lbs, and she gets about 1lb per day.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby kaytenmags » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:49 am

willyg44 wrote:kaytenmags thanks for the post. I'm on the second week of feeding Leo raw and I'm finding a lot of sources that are saying different things. I guess I'll stick with what is said in this thread, as all of the dogs in this forum seem to be doing fine on raw! I did have another question if someone doesn't mind answering. Is it okay to feed just chicken? If they get an 80-10-10 meat/bone/organ ratio? With an egg a 4-5 times a week? I ask because I haven't been able to find a butcher/meat market near where I am in Gainesville, FL (If anyone has one PLEASE LET ME KNOW) and it's really quite expensive buying it in supermarkets. I wanted to give him a week of red meat to see if he does well on it, but I'm not going to spend like 30 bucks in 1 week for a few pounds of meat for him! I've just been feeding chicken necks/backs and am going to see how he likes leg quarters tonight. Or if there are other suggestions for my situation, please let me know, thanks a bunch!

variety is the spice of life!
i'm not going to say that you CAN'T feed just chicken, but getting some variety in there would be preferred.

red meat is expensive, i know. but keep an eye on the grocery flyers (i've got my local ones bookmarked on my computer lol), and see if you can pick up some cheap pork when it's on sale. picnic roasts are big, and are pretty cheap when they're on sale! i picked up a 27lb chunk a couple months back, for $0.77/lb. that was the best deal i've seen up here yet! our meat up here in canada seems to be a lot more expensive than what you guys can get. i've heard of some awesome deals down in the US (i'm jealous). Also, heart is considered a muscle meat, and is usually cheaper than most beef cuts (introduce it SLOWLY tho!). feeding a whole week of red meat is unnecessary, but getting a day or two in there would be great.

if you want to find some local resources, i'd recommend checking out the yahoo group: CarnivoreFeed-Supplier

also check out asian markets if you've got any nearby.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby April » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:59 pm

kaytenmags wrote:
April wrote:Have any of your dogs had any problems (choking, etc) on raw?

no, but my dog does regularly choke on small treats. she's a gulper/inhaler, so she'll take a treat very fast and then a few seconds later she'll cough and it will shoot out of her mouth. and then she'll eat it again. she's gross lol
kibble was much more of a choking hazard for her than raw!

April wrote:How much do you all spend a week, In NY a piece of lamb rib cost as much as 8 bucks (3-4 dollars a pound).
My dog doesn't like raw egss, fat free plain yogurt, or other fruits so should I worry if she only eats the meat
Won't her diet be unbalanced.
As for how much I should feed her, my girl is about 53-55 pounds last time she was 51 pounds (3 months ago).
She's one year old.

i don't know how much i spend in a week, it depends what's on sale. i buy chicken when it's $1/lb, i get a beef mix from my butcher that's about $1/lb, i stock up on pork when it goes on sale for less than $1/lb (but that's not often enough, so i usually spend more $$ on pork). i've also been known to pick up strange things like camel and kangaroo, but that's big bucks and isn't a staple of her diet. i'd guess i probably spend on average, about $50/mo or there abouts. might be less, but i doubt it's more.

as for fruit, my dog doesn't get fruit/veg unless it's levtovers from my plate (or the kids). as long as you can feed them meat, edible bone, and organ meat, they'll be fine.

it's usually recommended to feed 2-3% of their ideal body weight, but that depends on the dog. my girl is (ideally) about 45-50lbs, and she gets about 1lb per day.


Awesome thanks, here in NY you will never find any type of meat for 1 dollar a pound hahaha.
Pork is relatively cheap tho, but I wouldn't give it to my dog who knows what they are fed.
Once I find a reliable source for the meat I will switch, but if I buy the stuff at my local store I would spend 70 bucks a week.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby willyg44 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:31 am

Well I have a bit of a problem... Leo threw up the last 2 days in the middle of the night, and he has had diarrhea the past 2 days as well. We've just been feeding chicken and egg and he was doing great, hard poops and everything. Then, about 5 days ago we started adding chicken livers for organ meat when he got used to the chicken. We added a couple livers with each meal, and he slurps them right up. But, just a couple days ago he started the puking/diarrhea thing =/ . So today I'm going to try to do away with the livers...which sucks because I put meat and liver in ziploc bags and froze them (like 50 of them) and defrost 2 for the following day each day.

Does this happen if you feed too much liver? I thought I was giving a right amount, it's just 1 strip with each meal. Any experience with this stuff?
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby suzi » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:06 am

First and foremost I am NOT a nutritionalist....But I do know that organ meat is very rich. Think of eating a 8x8 sheet of fudge.....What would your body do?

The Raw diet I feed Bella is mainly Chicken, veggies, supplements, ground nuts. I got the recipe from a dog nutritionalist who had me add organ meat to the mix, but only 10% max (depending on how much you feed, for Bella it trns out to be almost a TBLS. I use chicken liver/gizzards or beef liver.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby willyg44 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:24 am

suzi wrote:First and foremost I am NOT a nutritionalist....But I do know that organ meat is very rich. Think of eating a 8x8 sheet of fudge.....What would your body do?

The Raw diet I feed Bella is mainly Chicken, veggies, supplements, ground nuts. I got the recipe from a dog nutritionalist who had me add organ meat to the mix, but only 10% max (depending on how much you feed, for Bella it trns out to be almost a TBLS. I use chicken liver/gizzards or beef liver.


Interesting.. Yeah it's probably like 3 tablespoons maybe that I've been feeding him =/ Bah I feel so bad I've been making him puke and didn't realize :( . Hopefully that's the problem though and it's not something else. It seems like I'm definitely feeding too much liver, thanks a lot for the reply.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby kaytenmags » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:40 am

with organ meat (liver especially), start SMALL.
add in a tiny bit, and increase that ammount over the next weeks/months. liver should only be about 5% of the diet, so it's not a huge ammount. work up to it tho :)
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby willyg44 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:59 pm

kaytenmags wrote:with organ meat (liver especially), start SMALL.
add in a tiny bit, and increase that ammount over the next weeks/months. liver should only be about 5% of the diet, so it's not a huge ammount. work up to it tho :)


Ok I just got confused, I thought most people did the 80-10-10 ratio? Should I be adding a different organ besides liver? Or is 5 percent fine to do.
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Re: B.A.R.F. 101

Postby kaytenmags » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:21 pm

willyg44 wrote:Ok I just got confused, I thought most people did the 80-10-10 ratio? Should I be adding a different organ besides liver? Or is 5 percent fine to do.

i feed with the 80-10-10 ratio, but that 10% is organ meat, half of which is liver.
so yes, the other 5% should be any other organ meat you can get (kidney, spleen, etc) :)
but again, start small! no one likes dealing with tap-ass lol
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