Dog Food help

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Postby kbreese » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:27 pm

One thing I find strange about Wellness, is that in the Faq they tell you your dog will poop more often and have larger stools. They say its due to the additional fiber, but I have always known more poop=negative reflection on a food. The more waste coming out of the dog usually means more waste in the food....

Regarding Nutro natural...we had a mixed pit on that years ago, and she was super healthy - Muscular, Shiny soft coat, great teeth, good stools.

Right now, I am debating to go back to Nutro Natrual or trying Wellness. The additional poop thing of the Wellness is a definite concer, especially being an apartment dweller where the dog is inside alone all day.


Postby kbreese » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:56 pm

Also, Regarding the rice complaint about Nutro Natural choice. This is not meant to be argumentative, I am just curious, since their is still plenty of protein in the food from the meat (lamb or chicken meal) what is so bad about rice as long as your dog isn't allergic..?

Also, the poultry fat question. Does it really matter which bird the fat came from? if so, why?

My purpose is not to defend the Nutro company. Only to get answers regarding some of the complaints that was made in this thread.

For me, I can get either Wellness or Nutro natural within 5 minutes of where I live...and the small price difference is insignificant to me. Still undecided....


Dog Food

Postby RedHmong215 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:00 pm

Ok, I'm new to the forum and like everyone that is new. I have a question also! My two dogs grew up on Pedigree but lately they haven't been eating, so 3 months ago I switch to some stuff called 01'Roy and they love it but now its like they only want wet food....I tried not feeding them it as much as possible but the only time they will eat is when I mix the wet and dry food together also they only lick the wet food and leave the dry. Any suggestions?


Postby kbreese » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:05 pm

I think you mean Ole Roy or Ol' Roy right? Thats a really nice looking pit you have their and he has nice muscle tone. Suprised he looks so healthy on what is considered low quality food.

If I were you i would stop feeding the wet and just put a bit of water over the dry food. Even if that doesnt work at first, they will eventually eat. They won't starve. You also might want to swith over to a higher quality food for even better health.

Also , just a suggestion, your question should have been a new individual post as its kinda off topic being this thread was really about nutro natural dog food and how it compared to other foods.


Thanks kbreese

Postby RedHmong215 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:56 pm

He's still a puppy 13 months only, I did try what you suggested a while back and its sad because my two dogs will starve for about 4-5 days until I finally gave up and mix their food with wet. Water just doesn't seem to cutt it for them, they actually want some kind of wet food. And wet food = $$.
Ol'Roy is the only type of brand those two will actually eat now at days. It could be that my girlfriend just spoils they too DAMN much with wet food.

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Postby barbponys » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:44 pm

Rice and any other grain in dog food is a filler that their bodies can't use. Part of the point of raw, aside from the fact their bodies are designed to eat it, is the removal of grain. Some raw feeders use grain, most that I know don't.

Poultry fat is unspecified. It's one of the things you look for in lower grade foods. If it was high quality they would spend the money and put better quality ingredients in i.e. specified fat sources. It's always going to be more expensive to use one source since they have to make sure that's all that went into the vat instead of just throwing bodies in.

Another thing to remember is, most of the time there is a lot more grain based protein than meat. The difference in price between the Wellness and Nutro may be a couple of bucks but the difference in quality is significant. I would encourage you to get the Wellness, it's a step in the right direction. Nutro banks on name recognition. And they win too often based on that alone.


Postby kbreese » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:11 am

Rice and any other grain in dog food is a filler that their bodies can't use.

???? Any time I have read anything about rice in dog food it was described as a highly digestible carbohydrate source and brown rice adds fiber, carbohydrates, and vitamin B.

As far as the "poultry fat" I understand what you are saying about it being unspecified. But my question was whats wrong with that? It seems your saying the reason poultry fat being unspecified is bad is b/c it's unspecified. Well....why?
The food is regulated by AAFCO so none of the fat will be a type that is actually bad for the dog. Why does it matter if there is some duck fat mixed in with chicken fat? Actually it might be beneficial the fact that its more diverse. I am not claiming to be right, just discussing what I think and looking for further factual explanation.

Another thing to remember is, most of the time there is a lot more grain based protein than meat.
This I agree with, I used to be heavy into working out and I am well aware that not all protein is created equal and this was one of the main reasons I was debating going to Wellness. However I am still concerned about the richness of the food and the fact that dogs poop larger and more often... this when has me a little baffled when I really think about it.

With all that said, I am now actually looking at Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul as it seems to be a great food and a pretty cheap price too! Interested in your opinions on it...

Here is the formula:
Fresh, Pure, Wholesome Ingredients

AAFCO Statement

Animal feeding tests using Association of American Feed Control Officials procedures substantiate that Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul™ Adult Dog Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for the maintenance of adult dogs.

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal, whole grain brown rice, whole grain white rice, oatmeal, potatoes, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), duck, salmon, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein 24% minimum
Crude Fat 14% minimum
Crude Fiber 3% maximum
Moisture 10% maximum
Sodium 0.3% maximum
Vitamin E 300 IU/kg minimum
0.4 mg/kg minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* 2.2% minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* 0.4% minimum

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Calorie Content
3,593 kcals/kg (336 kcals/cup) Metabolizable Energy

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Postby barbponys » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:28 am

AAFCO is a joke. They also allow certain percentages of poop to be included in the food, urine, dirt, and considering the grocery store foods have rendered product in them, per AAFCO regulations, why would you trust their criteria?? Just cuz they are government run doesn't mean they are trust worthy. They have NO clue as to what is healthy for your dog or mine.

Unspecified poultry fat means ANY bird that flies. It's garbage...... If you want your dog to have a good spectrum of fat sources add it yourself. At least you know what they are getting.

I was going to post about Chicken Soup last night but was interrupted. I don't like the food. It's low grade and most of the people that we had feeding it have moved off due to the lack of performance. One gentleman has 5 pits and was going through 2-3 bags a WEEK. They are all active adults and were eating A LOT of that food. It reads good but in reality it is greasy, stinks, makes the dogs stink and isn't worth the money you spend on it. It's about on par with Nutro in quality. I'm also not a fan of performs horribly, and though it seems to be having a resurgence in popularity for some reason, every owner I have dealt with that feeds any of their products has quit using it after about a year. Pay the extra and feed Wellness.

Rice...........yeah it's one of the easiest digestible grains........for US. Dogs and cats CAN'T digest grain. SOOOOO many companies play on our habit of saying if it's good for us it MUST be good for my pets. NOOOO!!!! When was the last time you saw film of Lions or Wolves raiding farmers corn, wheat or oat fields??? Have you ever heard a farmer say they need to be erradicated because they are huge problems and ruin profits??? They don't NEED grain. Period.


Postby kbreese » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:37 pm

First off, please don't take any of this as argumentitive. This is just good healthy discussion & debate as far as I am concerned.

Ok, as far as the grains go, how do you know for sure that dogs cannot digest grain?? I am not saying I know for a fact that they can digest it, but since you are saying the can't digest it, could you please lead me to some scientific evidence to prove its an indigestible food for dogs. Now, I am far from some naive kid who believes everything I read in advertisements by any means, but I find it a little hard to believe that the hundreds of dog food companies, some highly respected, are either wrong or flat out lying about the fact that its a highly digestible carb source and overall good for the dog and including it as a main ingredient in most of their formulas.

The whole "in the wild" argument holds no water to anything for me. Same goes with the whole RAW argument. People always pull out the "in the wild" card. What makes you or anyone else think dogs, wolves, lions etc etc in the wild are more healthy and live longer lives?? Are these creatures so intelligent as to know whats best for their health? Do these animals conduct tests and read nutrition books in the wild? Do they discuss their new diets at some Jungle Golds Gym out there in the wild?? Heck if we had the same intelligence level would we eat a well balanced nutritious diet?? I know I'd never stuff broccoli and brussel sproats down my throat. Heck no, I'd just eat cheeseburgers, french fries, pizza and Buffalo wings all the time.

If you have a child or a puppy are you going to let them eat whatever his natural instincts desire?? The whole in the wild argument is just as ridiculous and is no grounds for proving what is or isnt actually healthy or digestible for an animal.

Now if there is scientiific proof that dogs cannot digest grains, I am all ears and if its there I will humbly bow to the facts, thank you for the info and purchase accordingly :)


Postby deltron » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:42 pm


I switched my dogs to Canidae and the improvement is incredible. They honestly seem more happy with the food in general. It's also good because my younger dog who was transitioning off of puppy food can eat it, since there is one formula for all ages (except elderly dogs ?Platinum? or something). That means one bag of food for the both of them.

Anyway, I would highly suggest trying it. Thanks.


Postby AllAmericanPUP » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:26 pm

Chicken soup is a good dog food, i dont know why you think it's so bad.
I have talked to lots of people who feed it to their dogs and their dogs do AWESOME on it.
I just switched my senior dog to this stuff about 2 months ago and her coat has already improved and she is a bit more active, and that's pretty fricken good considering she is 12 years old.
I also just switched my cats to it, but they have only been on it for a day but I am sure they will do well on it.

My adult dogs have been on Diamond for like 2 years now except ozzy barkley and eli who have only been on it for a lil over a year cause they are only 15 months old, and they are doing really great on it also. Great coats, very active, not much poop, no bad doggy breath, etc.

What works for one dog doesnt always work for another.

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Postby GreddysAngel » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:31 pm

I will never buy eagle pack again. It doesnt stay in Greddy very long at all. The cheap stuff was better than IMO. I guess just keep trying until you find something ur dog likes and like them back lol

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Postby Addy1423 » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:20 am

We have been looking for some time now but no where in Louisville sells any good food. I could order it offline but then im paying shipping and handling and thats a bit rediculous for dog food... any advise?


Postby kbreese » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:58 am

I am going to be ordering Timberwolf online. Not happy about paying for shipping as I have just about every other food available to me locally, so hopefully it will be worth it.

If I refused to pay shipping and just had the bare minimum available to me I would definitely go with Nutro Natural Choice, California natural, Innova or Canidae. (assuming thats available to you). I previously had my dogs on the Nutro Natural Choice and they did awesome on it - shiny coats, nice stool, beer ylittle dog odor and their teeth were beautiful -The Nutro has large pieces which are good for crunching and keep the teeth clean. I have also heard of many other's having dogs live very long healthy lives on the Nutro.

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Postby Addy1423 » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:41 pm

So whats so bad about Sciense Diet?

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