what can you tell me about raw diet??
can i realy feed my dog raw chicken and chicken bones??
check this
http://www.bluegrace.com/barf.html
raw diet
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by barbponys » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:58 pm
Yes you can feed raw chicken bones. My dogs get half chickens fairly regularly. I have done this for quite sometime with no problems. Big beef or lamb bones will give them more chewing satisfaction.
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by HugABull1 » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:28 pm
I also feed raw, and I do feed raw pork, but I live in an area where I can be sure the pork is "clean" (no trichanosis or flukes). Chicken necks and turkey necks are great, but make sure your dog chews them - mine tend to swallow turkey necks whole and choke on them, which is very scary!!!
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by HugABull1 » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:43 am
well, what you're feeding won't be nutritionally balanced, but that's easy to fix!.
If you want to do a homemade cooked diet, you want the diet to be around %70 cooked lean meat, %15 whole healthy grains, and %15 veggies and supplements. You need to add bone meal so that they have the proper calcium and phosphorus in the food. I can't remember how much bone meal to add - maybe someone here can help out. NEVER feed cooked bones.
For grains, I'd skip the noodles, they have all sorts of crap in them. I'd feed wild rice, brown rice, oatmeal, barley, rye, or flax. Stay away from white rice or corn, a lot of dogs are allergic to them, and the corn causes big smelly poops and wicked gas.
For veggies, you want a wide variety, and stay away from the sugary ones. Great veggies are: spinach, kale, zuchinni, cabbage family (broccolli, etc - be warned causes gas), bean sprouts, turnips, beets (causes pinkish pee, don't panic), yams (in moderation, they've got a lot of sugar), and pretty much anything else edible. My dogs get a lot of exotic "veggies" like Taro root, Jacayma, bok choy, and all sorts of funky squashes. They're often cheaper than the popular ones and very healthy.
Your dog should get fish (tuna or salmon are great, as are sardines - not salted, and other small boned fish) and offal (organ meat) regularly. They should make up around %5 of his diet.
You may want to add yogurt, apple cider vinegar (contains 19 of 22 trace minerals in exactly the right amount), kelp, ginger, or other supplements.
If you go with a raw diet, it's basically the same thing, only instead of using cooked meat and bone meal, the diet is around%70 raw meaty bones (chicken wings, backs, and necks are an example of a RMB), %15 muscle meats (chicken breast or thighs, or any beef or lamb that's cubed or ground up, including offal and fish in here), and %15 veggies and grains.
Never feed grains with raw meat, feed at a seperate time or day.
Good luck!
If you want to do a homemade cooked diet, you want the diet to be around %70 cooked lean meat, %15 whole healthy grains, and %15 veggies and supplements. You need to add bone meal so that they have the proper calcium and phosphorus in the food. I can't remember how much bone meal to add - maybe someone here can help out. NEVER feed cooked bones.
For grains, I'd skip the noodles, they have all sorts of crap in them. I'd feed wild rice, brown rice, oatmeal, barley, rye, or flax. Stay away from white rice or corn, a lot of dogs are allergic to them, and the corn causes big smelly poops and wicked gas.
For veggies, you want a wide variety, and stay away from the sugary ones. Great veggies are: spinach, kale, zuchinni, cabbage family (broccolli, etc - be warned causes gas), bean sprouts, turnips, beets (causes pinkish pee, don't panic), yams (in moderation, they've got a lot of sugar), and pretty much anything else edible. My dogs get a lot of exotic "veggies" like Taro root, Jacayma, bok choy, and all sorts of funky squashes. They're often cheaper than the popular ones and very healthy.
Your dog should get fish (tuna or salmon are great, as are sardines - not salted, and other small boned fish) and offal (organ meat) regularly. They should make up around %5 of his diet.
You may want to add yogurt, apple cider vinegar (contains 19 of 22 trace minerals in exactly the right amount), kelp, ginger, or other supplements.
If you go with a raw diet, it's basically the same thing, only instead of using cooked meat and bone meal, the diet is around%70 raw meaty bones (chicken wings, backs, and necks are an example of a RMB), %15 muscle meats (chicken breast or thighs, or any beef or lamb that's cubed or ground up, including offal and fish in here), and %15 veggies and grains.
Never feed grains with raw meat, feed at a seperate time or day.
Good luck!
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by barbponys » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:35 am
From my perspective the whole point of feeding raw is to get away from the feeding of grain. It's basically filler they can't really use anyway.
The only thing I would add to Chilli's list is raw eggs. They also are the perfect food and will do wonders for skin and coat. And Beets are also very high in sugar so they should be an occassional treat type of veggie.
The only thing I would add to Chilli's list is raw eggs. They also are the perfect food and will do wonders for skin and coat. And Beets are also very high in sugar so they should be an occassional treat type of veggie.
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by pitbulliest » Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:37 pm
I make my own recipes for my dog... as long as it has over 50% protein value.. but there's alot more to it...you DO have to have carbs if your dog is active...the whole "meat only" thing doesn't necessarily work for every dog. I feed my dog rice as well and she loves it... however I do not feed raw meat ever..I always cook it for a few minutes, and that's a personal preference.
Always make sure you have a correct phosphorus to calcium ratio... it should be 1:1.2
So for example if you have 120 mg of calcium and 250 mg of phosphorus..you need more calcium... you'll need exactly 300 mg of calcium for the 250 mg of phosphorus..and since you already have 120, you'll actually need to add only 180 mg... this is just an example of course..your recipe will have way more of both.
Instead of using bonemeal, I dry eggshells and heat them in the oven for five minutes to get rid of the filmy mucus..then I grind them up and use the powder for calcium.
1 teaspoon of eggshell powder has 1,800 mg of calcium.
This is much easier for me since bonemeal also contains phosphorus..however, eggshell powder does not..so I don't have to spend alot of time calculating the proportions to equal everything out...
There are home cooked recipe's in Doctor Pitcairn's book (just look up Pitcairn cooked meals on the net or in your library). It contains too much grains for me personally...but its not necessarily a bad thing...its just that I don't really like the idea of giving my dog like..20 cups of rice and 5 cups of meat..
Also, if you plan on making your own recipes later on, you can use this website to help you figure out the right ratios of everything, the calorie contents, the fat and protein contents of your recipes and individual ingredents, etc:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/
just add the foods you want to make up the recipe to your pantry, select the amount you want for each recipe (I work in 100 grams)...
I would recommend doing some research first before you plan on switching your dog over to either raw or cooked meals..it took me like a month of good reading and asking questions in order for me to make my first recipe for my dog...and I'm still learning alot about it..
However..if you want some help with strictly raw diets..I can't help you there..
good luck
Always make sure you have a correct phosphorus to calcium ratio... it should be 1:1.2
So for example if you have 120 mg of calcium and 250 mg of phosphorus..you need more calcium... you'll need exactly 300 mg of calcium for the 250 mg of phosphorus..and since you already have 120, you'll actually need to add only 180 mg... this is just an example of course..your recipe will have way more of both.
Instead of using bonemeal, I dry eggshells and heat them in the oven for five minutes to get rid of the filmy mucus..then I grind them up and use the powder for calcium.
1 teaspoon of eggshell powder has 1,800 mg of calcium.
This is much easier for me since bonemeal also contains phosphorus..however, eggshell powder does not..so I don't have to spend alot of time calculating the proportions to equal everything out...
There are home cooked recipe's in Doctor Pitcairn's book (just look up Pitcairn cooked meals on the net or in your library). It contains too much grains for me personally...but its not necessarily a bad thing...its just that I don't really like the idea of giving my dog like..20 cups of rice and 5 cups of meat..
Also, if you plan on making your own recipes later on, you can use this website to help you figure out the right ratios of everything, the calorie contents, the fat and protein contents of your recipes and individual ingredents, etc:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/
just add the foods you want to make up the recipe to your pantry, select the amount you want for each recipe (I work in 100 grams)...
I would recommend doing some research first before you plan on switching your dog over to either raw or cooked meals..it took me like a month of good reading and asking questions in order for me to make my first recipe for my dog...and I'm still learning alot about it..
However..if you want some help with strictly raw diets..I can't help you there..
good luck
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by barbponys » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:54 pm
I feed my pug straight raw and I have no trouble with the energy thing. He can't eat any grain and he goes on trail rides with the horses, he keeps up just fine.
I don't agree with them needing the grain based carbs for energy. why would they??? Cuz we do?
I don't agree with them needing the grain based carbs for energy. why would they??? Cuz we do?
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by pitbulliest » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:38 pm
barbponys wrote:I feed my pug straight raw and I have no trouble with the energy thing. He can't eat any grain and he goes on trail rides with the horses, he keeps up just fine.
I don't agree with them needing the grain based carbs for energy. why would they??? Cuz we do?
No...I'm not saying they have to have it..I'm saying my dog likes it alot and its not bad for them...especially barley and brown rice...its a personal preference..for example..I will not feed my dog raw meat..and you will..everyone has their own way of feeding their dogs..as long as they know what they're doing and as long as the dog is healthy...
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by barbponys » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:54 pm
I don't agree with the statement that it's not bad for them. For an animal that is a carnivore to be fed grain doesn't make sense, it's a food they can use. My dog likes it too but I still don't feed it to him. Goliath would be pefectly happy eating bread or any other grain with every meal. It's convenient to feed my "healthy" dogs dry food but it's not good for them. If I had the financial means they would eat straight raw, and be far heathier for it. I will get to a point where they won't eat dry anymore, they prefer the raw and do far better on it.
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by pitbulliest » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:03 pm
barbponys wrote:I don't agree with the statement that it's not bad for them. For an animal that is a carnivore to be fed grain doesn't make sense, it's a food they can use. My dog likes it too but I still don't feed it to him. Goliath would be pefectly happy eating bread or any other grain with every meal. It's convenient to feed my "healthy" dogs dry food but it's not good for them. If I had the financial means they would eat straight raw, and be far heathier for it. I will get to a point where they won't eat dry anymore, they prefer the raw and do far better on it.
Well I for one don't like raw diets..there are alot of horror stories about them that I have heard from friends and other dog owners... alot of people think that dogs ARE wolves and if the owners could, they'd bring a deer carcas into their backyard and let their dog devour it because that's what they would normally do? Uhm.....I think that's pretty stupid personally...but that's how it is with BARF and those weirdo extreme BARFERS..and I also notice all the information given on BARF is all positive and WOO HOOey...there are even forums that are PRO BARF and if you mention any other food they'll go haywire...well its not likethat..there are alot of downs to an all raw diet that people aren't even aware of because of all the "my dog is thriving on it" stories..what about the people who lost their dogs to it?...
anyways..that's not my point...grain isn't bad for dogs..for example..barley is extremely healthy for a dog's digestive system..especially when a dog is sick or has diarhea...there's nothing wrong with feeding whole grains as long as you've got meat as your main ingredient, along with some veggies and supps..etc...
I don't seem to understand why people are so scared to feed their dogs anything but meat these days...I mean where I come from..dogs eat ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, and have been doing so since heck knows how long..and alot of them live to be 20 years of age believe it or not!!!...dogs are not 100% carnivores..they are omnivores and more importantly...scavengers... NOT WOLVES..
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by barbponys » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:35 pm
I don't remember claiming they were wolves. All dogs are related to wolves but I never said they ARE wolves. Their nutritional requirements are, however, the same. Scavenger doesn't mean ominvore. Show me the grinding surface on a dogs teeth. WE are omnivores, we have tearing teeth AND grinding surfaces. Dogs and cats don't. You don't argue that cats are carnivores yet the jaw structures are identical. The short digestive tract, the extremely strong digestive juices.
There are dogs that don't do well on a raw diet for whatever reason. I have been feeding raw for almost a decade and have had no problems what-so-ever. 7 dogs have been fed raw and though there's always a chance there could be difficulties I have run into no problems. My views on grains stands. I have had my dogs eat horse and goat and chicken grain and cleaned up the same grain the next morning. That to me says more about their ability to DIGEST grain than anything else. It helps with diarrhea because the gluten binds the stools! Starch has a tendency to do that.
There are dogs that don't do well on a raw diet for whatever reason. I have been feeding raw for almost a decade and have had no problems what-so-ever. 7 dogs have been fed raw and though there's always a chance there could be difficulties I have run into no problems. My views on grains stands. I have had my dogs eat horse and goat and chicken grain and cleaned up the same grain the next morning. That to me says more about their ability to DIGEST grain than anything else. It helps with diarrhea because the gluten binds the stools! Starch has a tendency to do that.
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barbponys - Health Guru
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by pitbulliest » Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:36 pm
Alright.. the next time I find the some dozen great articles about how grains are actually quite good for dogs I'll let you know and gladly give you the links...ok?
You may be lucky to be feeding your dogs raw and they're doing great..good for you..however..like I said..I've heard alot of horror stories..and no..dogs are not complete carnivores and not all dogs will thrive on a completely raw diet...they won't thrive on just eating meat alone...after all..that's what CARNIVORES do..you claim that cats and dogs are identical? Where did you get this information from? If they were completely identical, then how come cat food contains so much more protein than dog food...and how come its actually hazardous to feed too much veggies to cats...while the longest living dog up to date was a vegetarian?...
Anyways..you seem like another crazed barfer to me and I don't want to argue with you because its obviously pointless and will just end up making both of us look pretty stupid...we're arguing over food here..geezus
I've simply stated that there is no problem with grains and you said you completely disagree... and I quote "I don't agree with them needing the grain based carbs for energy. why would they??? Cuz we do?"...no..I never once stated that..if you don't want to feed your dogs grains...go right on ahead I could care less and its great that your dogs are healthy and fine...but stop freaking out because I'm not a barfer like yourself and because I believe that its ok to feed them....
thanx
You may be lucky to be feeding your dogs raw and they're doing great..good for you..however..like I said..I've heard alot of horror stories..and no..dogs are not complete carnivores and not all dogs will thrive on a completely raw diet...they won't thrive on just eating meat alone...after all..that's what CARNIVORES do..you claim that cats and dogs are identical? Where did you get this information from? If they were completely identical, then how come cat food contains so much more protein than dog food...and how come its actually hazardous to feed too much veggies to cats...while the longest living dog up to date was a vegetarian?...
Anyways..you seem like another crazed barfer to me and I don't want to argue with you because its obviously pointless and will just end up making both of us look pretty stupid...we're arguing over food here..geezus
I've simply stated that there is no problem with grains and you said you completely disagree... and I quote "I don't agree with them needing the grain based carbs for energy. why would they??? Cuz we do?"...no..I never once stated that..if you don't want to feed your dogs grains...go right on ahead I could care less and its great that your dogs are healthy and fine...but stop freaking out because I'm not a barfer like yourself and because I believe that its ok to feed them....
thanx
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