Ivomec(Ivermectin) and Heartworm preventative questions.....

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barbponys
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Postby barbponys » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:59 am

pblove wrote:I know it covered a multitude of worms in horses, but a lot of the worms have now become immune to ivermectin.
We have had to move on to a dfiferent class of drugs once again!
Seems like a loosing battle all the time.


Since when? I just had a long talk with my vet about worming and the new combo care. Ivermectin is still the primary wormer in a rotation program

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Postby barbponys » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:09 am

Christy,
I dose my horses with Ivermectin 4 or 5 times a year. I have one horse that's about 850 pounds and I have dosed her at the 1250 pound rate for 5 years. I have another mare that's 1050 and she's been dosed at the 1250 rate for more than 10 yrs. If there was going to be a problem with toxicity they would be dead by now. There's only one wormer that you dose to weight STRICTLY cuz it's killed foals and cause mares to abort. I won't use that wormer, ever. I'm pretty damn anal about how I dose and with what. I understand the caution and concern but if I had to worry about heartworm, I would be using the Ivomec. Pharmacutical companies are all about profit and with heartworm being such a huge issue? Guaranteed income for vets, what with the testing and expense of the heartworm meds and treatments? With Blue Steel using Ivomec for 20 years without any problems I wouldn't hesitate. But that's just me :) .

dopeychristy

Postby dopeychristy » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:18 am

barbponys wrote:Christy,
I dose my horses with Ivermectin 4 or 5 times a year. I have one horse that's about 850 pounds and I have dosed her at the 1250 pound rate for 5 years. I have another mare that's 1050 and she's been dosed at the 1250 rate for more than 10 yrs. If there was going to be a problem with toxicity they would be dead by now. There's only one wormer that you dose to weight STRICTLY cuz it's killed foals and cause mares to abort. I won't use that wormer, ever. I'm pretty damn anal about how I dose and with what. I understand the caution and concern but if I had to worry about heartworm, I would be using the Ivomec. Pharmacutical companies are all about profit and with heartworm being such a huge issue? Guaranteed income for vets, what with the testing and expense of the heartworm meds and treatments? With Blue Steel using Ivomec for 20 years without any problems I wouldn't hesitate. But that's just me :) .


Who is Blue Steel? l

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Postby barbponys » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:20 am

Blue Steel wrote:Chris, I have been using Ivomec (1% solution sterile Ivermectin) for over twenty years now. I have NEVER had a problem with it. The dosage I have always used is 0.1 cc per eleven (11) pounds of body weight. I use a 1cc tuberculin syringe because it is marked in hundredths of a cc. To be completely accurate, you should be able to deliver the ivomec in hundredths of a cc. I have dogs ranging in size from a 16 pound Jack Russell Terrier to a 75 pound pittie (he was not of my breeding, but a rescue who came to live with us), to rats that weigh between 350 grams, to a little over a pound (yes, they get treated with Ivomec, but for mites, not heartworms!). All puppies when they are old enough and weigh enough are put on monthly Ivomec to prevent heartworms.

I have read that Ivomec does NOT work against fleas or ticks in that it is not strong enough, nor does it last long enough in the body. Well, for

what it's worth, it may not have any lingering control, but if there's a flea or tick on the dog the day I give the Ivomec, the next day the tick (or flea) is dead. *shrugs*

Ivomec is also having some success in dealing with Demodectic Mange mites. They are exceedingly difficult to kill, because of their life cycyle and the fact that you have to treat for such a long time. Plus, the dosage is higher: 400 micrograms per kilogram of body weight every day for at least four to six weeks. For dogs sensitive to Ivomec, this is not ON the threshhold, but getting close to it (600 mcg/kg of body weight is when problems that were noted above can occur). (And don't even THINK about giving it to a hearding dog such as a Collie, or Sheltie..... but you're a bully person so guess we don't need to bother with that lil' tidbit.)

Okay, gotta go, but if I think of anything else, I'll jump back in. If you have any questions that haven't been answered already, just ask. I'm sure somebody will jump in there! :)


Here she is.

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Postby turtle » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:06 am

Good posts, Pat. That pretty much sums up what I've heard about dosing with Ivomec for heartworm. When you consider how much more is given to dogs with demodex mange, the Ivomec dose for heartworm prevention is quite small.

And one other thing I read years ago about Ivermectin is that it only stays in the body for about 24 hours and then it's gone. It basically kills any microfilaria (larvae) in the bloodstream which prevents them from becoming adult heartworms. It takes some time for them to get to the adult stage so as long as the dog is given regular doses of Ivermectin, this prevents the life cycle of the worms.

The Ivomec has a nasty taste, so you'd want to squirt it quickly in the back of their throats and hold the mouth closed till they swallow it. I always gave a tasty treat afterwards as a reward.

For round worms and hook worms, I'd use Pyrantel Pamoate. You can buy it from KV Vet labeled for humans for treating pinworms, it's the same stuff as for dogs but a lot cheaper.

http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/product_styl ... 6625235487

Why make the vets rich over simple wormers?

.

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Postby pblove » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:24 am

Since when? I just had a long talk with my vet about worming and the new combo care. Ivermectin is still the primary wormer in a rotation program
_________________


We have had worm resistance with ivermectin for the past several years in this are. The vets seem to think it was due to the fact when ivermectic first came out, it was advertised as the only wormer you will ever need from here on...
After many more cases of worm induced colic cropping up at farms where(very litttle colic cases had been seen in the past)) the horse were cared for, wormed routinely and maunure picked up in the fields, they did a little research and found that the rounds, were not being killed by the ivermect. This was (they think) due to the farms on the where rotation was stopped and mostly ivermect was being used.
Now that Quest io out, the horses are now showing less sings of the problem as long as they are not depending on ivermect. as in the past.
Most in this area still use ivermct,. but ony twice a year. In the spring for the no see ums, and to kill off bag worms in nursing mares, and in the late fall, after we have had at least two hard frosts, to kill off the bots.
Other then that, it is back to rotating the different class of drugs in wormers.
Sadly, the vet was just here to put down a horse, so I did get the chance afterwards, to ask him about this to be sure.
dopeychristy, this had nothing to do with you and ivermectine, it was abut horses and worms.
I asked him about suing the ivermectin for the dogs and he said to be sure to speak to the dog's vet first, to make sure you are using the proper amounts, or it could get ugly.
brabs, you are on the west coast, I am on the east coast, I have no idea idea if that makes a difference, but something to ponder.

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Postby turtle » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:19 am

That's very interesting about horses and wormers, pblove. I am sure it's true, that if you use only one wormer, the worms will build up a tolerance to it over time. It's the same with people, I see Drs prescribe antibiotics and penicillin for all sorts of minor aliments as a "cure all" and many germs are becoming resistant to these drugs because of over use. And I would not put my dog on antibiotics either unless she had an infection and it was needed.

That's why I'd use the Ivomec for the heartworm prevention and the Pyrantel Pamoate for the round and hook worms, tape worms take a different wormer yet. If you use them in rotation, it should keep the worms from building a tolerance.

.

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Postby barbponys » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:35 pm

I use strongid, ivermectin, the combo care which has Praziquantel for the tape worms, in rotation through the year. It's the moxidectin(quest) that I won't use, I do the power pack with Panacur twice a year instead. It's a double dose of Fendbendazol for 5 days. It kills all the encysted small strongyls in the intestines. Quest only kills stage 3 and 4 encysted strongyls............

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Postby turtle » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:30 pm

"Strongid" is a brand name for Pyrantel Pamoate, right? I forgot about Panacur, that's a good wormer, too, for the round and whip worms. Rotation of wormers is a fine idea...

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Postby barbponys » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:29 pm

Yeah, it's the pyrantel pamoate. I used to feed daily wormer, it totally controls the large and small strongyls, and makes the power pack unnecessary. However, it costs about $150 more a year to do that and rotate in the the ivermectin and prazequantel. Going through a catalog saves up to 10 dollars per dose............

Blue Steel

Postby Blue Steel » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:30 pm

dopeychristy wrote:Who is Blue Steel?


:hi

I'z here! Just lost in cyber space for a bit.

;) :D

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Postby pblove » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:01 pm

I used to feed daily wormer,

me too, sure miss those big green buckets with the nice fitting lids! :)

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Postby moto1320 » Sun May 01, 2005 4:42 pm

Blue Steel, where do you get your Ivermectin? My first bottle was given to me by a friend and now I'm out. Don't really want to go to heartgaurd...I will have to this month as the mosquitos are just about out and Daisy has been off. But thats as long as I care to spend that much.

dopeychristy

Postby dopeychristy » Sun May 01, 2005 5:03 pm

moto1320 wrote:Blue Steel, where do you get your Ivermectin? My first bottle was given to me by a friend and now I'm out. Don't really want to go to heartgaurd...I will have to this month as the mosquitos are just about out and Daisy has been off. But thats as long as I care to spend that much.



I ordered some from a site which is linked on like the second page of this thread. Americanfarm. something.

dopeychristy

Postby dopeychristy » Sun May 01, 2005 5:03 pm



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