Neutering: Sooner or later? Pros and Cons?

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Neutering: Sooner or later? Pros and Cons?

Postby mindonmatter » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:14 am

I was going to wait until Majik was 6 months to neuter him, but my vet said he'd do it right now if I wanted(he's about 4 months).

I've heard a lot of different things, and don't know what to believe. For example I've heard by neutering early, he'll fill out a lot sooner. On the flip side I've also heard he'll be "leggier", taller, etc. Not sure which one to believe, if either.

What are all the pros and cons of neutering at 4 months VS. 6 months, if any? In my personal opinion, I'd rather do it as soon as possible, but I'll wait a little if there's reason to.

Thoughts? Comments?
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Postby Kelliek » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:48 am

i can't give you pro's or cons. cody was neutered at 14 weeks and i was/am very happy with that decision. he is a mix so i can't say if he is leggier or stouter than he should be. his dad was 85 lbs (amstaff) and his mom was a 25lb herding dog. he turned out medium sized, he is 65 lbs but no one believes it because his size would make you think he's about 45 lbs. he is leggy, but he is real stout in the chest.

i was a first time owner and was just beginning to research - i thought that if i neutered him young it would prevent agression. no idea, but he has never been agressive to humans or dogs.

Kellie

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Postby mindonmatter » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:04 pm

Thanks for the info Kelliek.....I appreciate it :) Great looking dog.
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Postby mindonmatter » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:06 am

Thanks for the reply. Judging by the lack of interest in this thread, I'm guessing it's pretty much a non issue. Off with the balls then :D Man, I'm going to feel guilty.
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Postby K » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:27 am

I agree..."OFF WITH THIER BALLS" :thumbsup:
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:43 am

lol, yep off with the balls!

all that leggier and fillin out crap is BS and a bunch of myths.
having your puppy neutered at a young age is not going to change how he grows.
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Postby moto1320 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:17 am

AllAmericanPUP wrote:lol, yep off with the balls!

all that leggier and fillin out crap is BS and a bunch of myths.
having your puppy neutered at a young age is not going to change how he grows.


That is rediculous. Denying the effects of testosterone on proper male health and development is just unbelievable. There are alot of pitbull myths, but being dismissive about science is a whole other ball park. While some dogs have fillled out just fine with a pediatric neuter, this is not deal sealing proof. If still in doubt, try halting the developmental hormone of your choice on yourself and see how you fare.

My personal opinion is to wait until the dog is just about done developing in cases where the owner is responsible enough to deal with doggy puberty. The hormones will float around his system for another 6 months in small amounts after the snip snip.

Should I ever end up with a puppy it will be in the 1 year range when I have this done, if ever.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:45 am

Millions of dogs are neutered at a young age and they all grow up just fine.
My boys were neutered at 8 months and they grew up just fine.

Most rescues neuter at 8 weeks, and those dogs growth isn't stunted or whatever.

the dog will have less behavioural problems if you get it done before he reaches puberty.
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Postby moto1320 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:03 am

AllAmericanPUP wrote:Millions of dogs are neutered at a young age and they all grow up just fine.
My boys were neutered at 8 months and they grew up just fine.

Most rescues neuter at 8 weeks, and those dogs growth isn't stunted or whatever.

the dog will have less behavioural problems if you get it done before he reaches puberty.


You haven't looked into this much. 8 months is not a young age, it is plenty of time for the dog to grow just fine, add in the several other months that the test stays around post-neuter and you have a dog that was allowed to grow with all of its hormones. You have proven my point.

Neuter at 8 weeks won't stunt a dogs growth, it will go the other way, which is the problem. Millions of dogs have not been neutered at all, much less this young.

Balls or lack there of aren't responsible for behavioral problems, genetics and owners are. Lopping them off won't change either one of these larger problems. Rescues are in it for damage control. You just can't hope that your placed puppy won't end up a stud. You do it young because you have to in rescue, not because it is the best idea. Many will argue the points of medical reasoning, but the rescue reason has to do with far more than how the dog will grow.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:05 am

An unneutered dog humping everything in site is the owners fault.....right....
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Postby moto1320 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:36 am

AllAmericanPUP wrote:An unneutered dog humping everything in site is the owners fault.....right....


yep, to a degree.

You are entitled to your opinion and seem bent on keeping it since your reasons keep changing. Just back it up with something. It is not in the best interest of those asking questions to have an unsubstantiated response tossed back at them with no emperical evidence. If fashioned as as a random opinion, no problem. I just don't think that people should fire something back so damning i.e., BS, with nothing to stand on. I am open to having my mind changed on the topic...any topic...but you'll have to give me alot more than that.

I will go back to my original post. My point, It is inaccurate and damaging to encourage someone to disregard scientific data that demands consideration at least, as myth and BS.
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Postby concreterose » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:44 pm

I waited until Vicki was 12 months before I got her spayed. I wanted her size to be as true to natural as possible, and I was prepared to deal with one heat cycle. She is never out alone or around any other male dogs, so that was a non-issue. My yard is fenced in and I kept the gate padlocked the 4 weeks she was in season. Kept the yard sprayed down when she toileted as to not to attract stray dogs. I also did not walk her at all during that time (which was the hardest thing on her).

I am happy with her development, she is not leggy at all, typical bulldog height and weight. This was a personal decision, I definitely would encourage any one who wishes to spay or neuter earlier too if that's their choice, there are no ill effects from doing it then either. There are people on there that have had their dogs spayed or neutered at a younger age and they look fine.
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Postby mindonmatter » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:38 pm

Thanks for the replies. Don't worry Moto, I'm like you. I need a little more than a blatant statement to convince me, something to back it up would be nice.

Anyways, after thinking about it a little more I think I'm going to wait until at least 6 months, maybe 7. Let him keep a some testosterone in his body a little longer. Certainly won't hurt, and might help a little.
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Postby moto1320 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:16 pm

hee hee, I know.

Without all of the hormones the growth plates don't close and you can end up with a narrow longer head, tall leggy dog, not very broad or deep in the chest. The growth spurt saps the energy used for building and developing muscle in exchange. Yes, Adopt A Shelter...he will have a tenny weeny unit as well. Both of my boys were fixed at 1.5 years and had very nice muscle definition and bone thickness, nice full wide heads too. They looked correct, not conformationally being BYB/rescue dogs, but built like a bulldog for sure. Doc still stays ripped all of the time with little effort. It's not definate that this will happen, but it has and can for sure.
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Postby HugABull1 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:41 pm

This is a subject that always interests me. I thoroughly researched the pros and cons of pediatric neuters when Gage was a wee'un. As Moto has said, early (ie before around 7-8 months) neuters do delay the closing of the growth plates in the long bones, which can cause a "leggy" dog. Dogs neutered as adults (over 2 years or something like that) tend to have wider skulls and chests. Neutering early causes itty bitty pee pees (don't tell Gage! :oops: lol ).

The reason I was so worried about all of this was because a) I was worried about joint problems caused by rapid growth spurts and b) I wanted Gage to be a short and muscular as his genetics would allow, as I knew from the time I fostered him at 5 weeks that I wanted to use him for weightpull if possible.

HOWEVER - my research turned up that while the only studies that exist on this DO say dogs neutered early may grow taller than they would were nature allowed to take it's course, the difference in height is pretty insignificant, generally only 1-2 cm. Of course, they cannot measure this for sure, what they did is neutered one third a litter at 8 weeks, another third at the standard age of 7 months, and left the final third intact. There was no observable difference between the dogs in Group I and Group II, but only in the dogs left intact well into adulthood (again, I believe it was 2 years).

Long story short, it doesn't make enough difference to really matter.

FWIW, I ended up having Gage neutered at five months despite my intentions to wait, as the little stinker broke a baby tooth off and it had to be removed right away (was interfering with the adult canine coming in). Gage IS leggy, but I believe that's just his breed (suspected mastiff in his background, possibly RR). But I can't tell for sure can I? He does have a tiny little doggy dinky, but that suits me just fine, easier to rub his tum without getting grossed out lol

As for behaviors, I've heard neutering early can help curb humping and marking, but...Gage was neutered before he'd even thought of such things, and he's not around intact females or any males on a regular basis, yet he marks (if we get new furniture or add anything to the yard he tries to mark in the house :roll:), humps, gets the "red rocket", the works :roll:

As I do rescue, all our pups are spayed at 8 weeks. I don't feel like having to track people down and check up on them when the dog is 6 months old, and deal with the hassle if they've not gotten around to spaying/neutering as they are contractually obligated to do. So for us, the dog is fixed before it goes home!
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