OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

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OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:40 pm

Duke it out here boys and girls! Let's just KEEP IT HERE!

No more polluting other threads with pro- or anti- cropping/docking propaganda.

Got an opinion? Voice it here, leave other threads alone - or at least allow them to remain on topic!!!!

If someone butts into your thread to start a cropping/docking debate, send them here.

Sound good?
Last edited by mnp13 on Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:50 pm

My thoughts...

Ear cropping, when done by a liscenced vet, is no more or less harmful or risky than any other surgery. Barring complications, the dogs don't seem to care that it's even done. If they did they would become head shy to an extent, as that is the result of a dog that is afraid due to injury or abuse.

Ear cropping has no medical benefits or risks (past the inherent risks of surgery). A dog with cropped ears is no more or less likely to have ear infections or other problems.

Ear cropping is not only done by 'fighters'. Infact, the ears were more commonly left natural to help prevent fang injury to the ear canal.

Ear cropping done at home is barbaric not to mention illegal. I own a dog with a home crop and her ears are pretty bad.

Ear cropping is a purely cosmetic procedure, done for looks and looks only. I'm ok with that. My dog came cropped. I wish she had her ears, but she doesn't. If I had been thinking when I had her spayed I would have had them re-cropped so that they look better.

Michelle
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Postby SKoth » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:00 pm

Anyone who knows me knows I would say:

NO CROPPING

NO DOCKING
Last edited by SKoth on Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby barbponys » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:24 pm

I agree Sarah.

I'm waiting for someone to make it vogue for people to start cropping their ears. Or notching them to identify with particular "groups".
Sounds barbaric doesn't it? Kind of like branding, pretty extreme but if someone wants to, what ever. The difference is, we have self awareness and can choose to do it. Dogs don't, they just have to deal with the fact that their human likes to cut ears off. I don't have a problem with those of you who have done it, I like the look of cropped ears but I couldn't do it............. I just can't inflict pain on my dog for asthetics.
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Postby SuperNova » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:05 pm

I dont see the real need for it. It's all about making the DOG look good to YOU. I think they look wonderful w/o ear cropping (i personally feel that it makes most of them look mean). And i always think of the word "ego".. b/c a good looking dog boosts the ego, right?;)

Ok and I'll have 20 people on my back... in..... 10 seconds!lol
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Postby mydogroxy » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:13 pm

so long as a crop is done by a professional and at the proper age as to minimize trauma and pain to the dog, i see nothing wrong with ear cropping. though roxy isn't cropped i highly prefer the look and will probably crop my future dogs.

i will agree that most people will find the look of a cropped dog to be more intimidating than a dog with natural ears. i don't think this is a valid reason not to crop, though. i think good manners and a well behaved dog will make much more of an impact on the public moreso than a simple cosmetic issue.

a lot of people also cite that cropping is an unnecessary procedure, but couldn't one argue the same for spay/neuter? though it does provide a benefit to the dog, it is completely unnecessary. responsible owners do it out of a desire to control dog population and ensure a healthier dog. though cropping doesn't have any such benefits, it's optional just like altering.

i don't even think docking is really relevant since it's not something historically done to pits (though obviously some are docked). i personally prefer natural tails on pits.
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Postby Leslie H » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:46 pm

I wish Xanny had her ears, her breeder did them twice. Hers are super short, even the bell is cut. It makes me cringe. I think cropping is mildly immoral, and I've heard of too many puppies dying as a result (about 5).
No judge has ever made a negative comment, a few people really like them, and every kid under the age of 4 has to stick their fingers in her little ear holes.
People often find her looks forbidding, and I know her ears play a part. I love a natural ear set. Plus, water goes right in when it rains.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:24 pm

a lot of people also cite that cropping is an unnecessary procedure, but couldn't one argue the same for spay/neuter? though it does provide a benefit to the dog, it is completely unnecessary


Yes.....yes it is...completely unnecessary....so unecessary that there are not millions of homeless dogs....there are no overfilled shelters....there are no rescues begging for donations and just a couple more foster homes or adopted..
oh wait, YES there are

Face it, the majority of dog owners are NOT responsible, therefore spay/neutering IS necessary.

I hate cropping and I hate the feel of a cropped ear it downright creeps me out.
I have heard of quite a few dogs becoming head shy after ear cropping also.
I think it's rediculous and just another way for man to make everything the way "he" wants it to be.
Nothing is ever good enough for people, they always have to change something, they can't just have something for what it is.
Docking is rediculous too, there is absolutely no reason to dock a tail unless for medical reason.
If you have a GSP that hunts in the field, then yea i can see why docking would be needed to protect the dog, but people who crop puppies cause it's the "norm"...it's just rediculous.

Eli's previous owner was going to crop his ears, thank god he didn't!! I think Eli would look rediculous with cropped ears and I would probably never pet that portion of his head...cause it just creeps me out..i would still love him the same, but I wouldn't scratch his ears and stuff like I do now if he had cropped ears...
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:05 pm

adoptAshelterPit wrote:see this is why im glad maggie's ears arent cropped!!
before:

after:

roflmao
remember that old "photo crop" thread. hahahahahaha


:po:

HEY!

that was a good crop!

See if I ever crop her ears for you again.

I'm gonna go pout now.
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:09 pm

Leslie H wrote:I wish Xanny had her ears, her breeder did them twice. Hers are super short, even the bell is cut. It makes me cringe. I think cropping is mildly immoral, and I've heard of too many puppies dying as a result (about 5).


Ok, first, unless your breeder is a vet he was performing illegal surgery. That alone tells me that two crop jobs culminating in an ultra short ear was probably an extremely painful experience for her. Poor dog.

Ruby's ears were cut off with scissors by her breeder. How pleasant.

You have heard of 5 puppies dieing from crops performed by a vet? What exactly killed them? (I'm not doubting, I'd just like information.)

Michelle
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:17 pm

AllAmericanPUP wrote:I have heard of quite a few dogs becoming head shy after ear cropping also.


Ruby's ears were cut off with scissors and she is not head shy. I know a few other dogs who have cropped ears and none of them are head shy either. The only dogs I know that are head shy are ones who have frequent ear infections (which has nothing at all to do with cropped ears) or who have their ear hair pulled out routinely (I know someone who does this to her poodle, poor dog).

AllAmericanPUP wrote:Docking is rediculous too, there is absolutely no reason to dock a tail unless for medical reason.
If you have a GSP that hunts in the field, then yea i can see why docking would be needed to protect the dog, but people who crop puppies cause it's the "norm"...it's just rediculous.


Docking is really no big deal when done correctly in the first days of life. It is 100% painless after the first 30 seconds. Vet docking is actually MUCH more painful for the dog.

Connor's tail was docked for a medical reason, but I have to admit that I like it MUCH better. I don't miss the tail clearing the coffee table, leaving welts on my legs or blood on the ceiling. I can't say I'd prefer to have Ruby or Connor have a tail. And yes, they have just as much emotion with their nub and stump (respectively) as they would with a full tail, you just have to look closer.

Michelle
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:19 pm

adoptAshelterPit wrote:yea, it was an excellent crop... but i think maggie looks rediculous, no matter how great the crop was 8)


It's not my fault if your dog is funny looking :twisted:

We're good, no worries! lol

Michelle
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Postby mnp13 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:23 pm

adoptAshelterPit wrote:
It's not my fault if your dog is funny looking


ok... that was just cold!!!!!!

meanie :twisted:


You'll note that YOU said it, I merely confirmed it.

:)) :)) :)) :tongue:
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Postby elizer » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:17 am

i personally like the rose ears and crop ears.
i wasn't going to crop but than one of the ears stayed floppy and one is rose so i think im going with the crop.
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Postby elegy » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:06 am

i think it's really disrespectful to our animals to cut off parts of them because we prefer the way it looks.

we don't do it for them. it benefits them in no way whatsoever. we do it for no other reason than we find it aesthetically pleasing. oh, and because the show ring people tell us that is how are dogs are "supposed" to look.
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