OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Kingsgurl
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Postby Kingsgurl » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:10 am

The reasons listed above are why I am not against a nice crop, done at the proper age by a vet who knows what they are doing. However, I see far too much of the other side, the home jobs, the late done, never lay right ones, the FAR too short ones. I hate seeing those and it's made me jaded, as I see far more of those then I see decent crops. I've seen STELLAR dogs sit in rescue for years because some azz hacked her ears off down to the nub. I've seen dogs with the edges of their ears grown together, the ears look like little tubes. I've seen dogs with the edges so scarred no hair ever grows and it just looks like what it was, a hack job, even if they paid money to have it done.

If cropping is important to you, figure that out before the pup is too old. Get someone who knows what the hell they are doing with the crop YOU want, even if they aren't the cheapest. I'm not for cropping rescue dogs, there is no reason and most of them have been through enough.

dcm150

Postby dcm150 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:45 am

we used to have all of our hog dogs cropped, not docked though......

I grew up in a family of big time hog hunters, and all the older men in the family honestly beleived that if the ears were cropped they had alot better sense of hearing, and it was one less thing a hog could get its mouth on or tusk hung on.
I had no say so in the matter though, dad's house, dad's ways. :)
almost any dog had on that side of the family had cropped ears, catahoula's, pit bulls, even a few labs. even beagles were trimmed, not 'cropped' but trimmed.
only house specific dogs were left natural. But all of them that were done were done by good vets, they looked great and were done and very early ages.
To me i prefer a tail for sure, but on the hears im both ways, some dogs pull it off, some dont

By the way a healthy well defined lab is suprisingly handsome with properly cropped ears, at least to me 8)

home croppings are bad news, and the owners should go through the same pain.

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Postby FearSheeple » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:25 pm

Also, cropping is done for just looks but I want my dog to look good.


Yeah, I think my husky mix would look better with cropped ears too, so I think I'll get it done. Any one opposed to that? Why?

My dog doesn't know that he isn't purebred, he doesn't know what type of ears he is "supposed" to have, or that people might think he looks silly one way or the other. And neither does a pit bull.

Yes, cropping is just because you (general "you") doesn't fit what you want them to look like. Is your dog's appearance really of that much value to you? Why? I have preference of dog's appearance, sure. But that doesn't mean I would change what they look like to fit my preferences. They are who they are, and their temperament and personality should be far, far up the list.

Gotta be honest - I'm not totally against it... I don't think it makes you a terrible person, or that you love your dog more or less than anyone else... but I can't help but feel there is too much emphasis on what your dog looks like.

Kind of like why some men don't want to neuter their dogs... because he would feel like "less of a man" without testicles. Your dog doesn't know what balls do, he doesn't know that his ears look silly (or maybe not even silly, you just plain don't like the way he looks with them)...

I don't know, I'm rambling, I guess. It's not an issue I am terribly passionate about, but it does make me sad to see these puppies with hundred dollar ear surgeries, just because they want their dogs to look a certain way. It has to seem a little absurd to some of you...

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Postby granitebull » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:27 pm

Well, ear cropping will change the looks but not the temperament of the dog. So in this particular thread people will argue about a procedure that is mainly for looks. (And of course when hunting with the dogs, cropping might serve a functionality purpose.)

Most people will agree with you that looks are not the most important aspect of a dog.

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Postby picara » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:04 pm

pblove wrote:
Garm's Girl wrote:Bump.

Wow, over 400 replies---and the whole argument boils down to the usual sidesteps ("Bigger things to worry about..." "It's tradition..." "It looks cool..." "My pup is tough, he can handle it..." "You callin' my dog ugly...?" "This is America, the dog is my property and I can do whatever I want with it...")

vs. the fact that it's totally unnecessary and hurts the pup.

Still waiting for someone to just come out and admit, "Yeah, I know it hurts my dog---and I don't care, because his pain and discomfort don't matter nearly as much as the satisfaction I get from having a vet slice my pup's ears off, so he'll look, you know, the way I think a pit bull should look." As opposed to, you know, the way a pit bull really does look :roll:


I think you hit the nail on the head!

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Postby lovabull » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:43 pm

I'm not sure if this was mentioned somewhere in the previous 53 pages of this thread so I'll ask it again.

Does anyone who's dog has cropped ears notice other dogs react as if your dog is being aggressive towards them? I've heard from a couple people say that cropped ears tend to make a dog look as if it's always at attention. For example, if something catches Choco's attention, I can tell right away because his HUGE bunny rabbit ears prick up. There are other tell tale signs from his body language, but his ears are the most obvious. Dogs that have cropped ears tend to look like they're focusing on something when they may not be at all. Can this lead to sending mixed messages to other dogs?

Like I said before, there are many other ways our dogs communicate via body language, I'm just wondering how big of a part the position of their ears play in it and whether or not anyone has noticed a difference.

(I have nothing against cropping when it is done by a licensed veterinarian, but I loooooooove the look of natural ears no matter how goofy they are)

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Postby matronmedusa » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:01 am

I'm a tattoo artist, and my husband is a body modifier. This is an interesting subject to me, because our profession deals with scarring, branding, piercing, and inking people for asthetic purposes. When I think about the cruelty factor, to me it's the same situation of a parent bringing a baby to get the ears pierced. The child has no say; it's the parent that thinks she'll look "cute." Though I do not necessarily AGREE with modifications done without the consent of the one receiving, I do not find it especially "cruel." After all, I was 5 when I had mine done, and I remember the pain, but it was short lived, and I still have them pierced to this day, so it couldn't have been traumatic.

I do think the cropped ears make a dog look tougher; more intimidating, but not in a bad way. Persoanlly, I would not have my animals' cropped and docked, just because I believe natural is best.....for MINE. There are times when I imagine what my Hera would look like with her ears cropped, but I'm happy with her floppy head. It's all part of her personality. I do not agree with tail docking, just for the simple fact that the tail is balance for a dog. It has a purpose.

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Postby matronmedusa » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:04 am

lovabull wrote:I'm not sure if this was mentioned somewhere in the previous 53 pages of this thread so I'll ask it again.

Does anyone who's dog has cropped ears notice other dogs react as if your dog is being aggressive towards them? I've heard from a couple people say that cropped ears tend to make a dog look as if it's always at attention....... Can this lead to sending mixed messages to other dogs?

Like I said before, there are many other ways our dogs communicate via body language, I'm just wondering how big of a part the position of their ears play in it and whether or not anyone has noticed a difference.

(I have nothing against cropping when it is done by a licensed veterinarian, but I loooooooove the look of natural ears no matter how goofy they are)



The ears are a HUGE factor in communication. In fact, the signals can be much more subtle than we give them credit for. I can certainly see how clipping them can send mixed signals.

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Postby chinsNdobermans » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:17 pm

As a Doberman lover I am strongly pro- cropping and docking because it is what makes our breed look the way it looks (and Dobermans were bred to be intimidating looking, as guard dogs), and I am strongly for allowing Dobermans to be guard dogs when under the owner's control such as a SH dog or a thoroughly-trained obedience dog.

As this is a pit bull board, my opinion isn't staunchly "yes of course." I am not for docking a pit's tail because it isn't the norm, although if the dog is damaging its tail on a regular basis and it is decided to do it for medical reasons, so be it. I know how much it hurts to be whacked by the strong tail of a big dog (my family owns labs), but I like a pit with a tail.

As for cropping - I really like the look of a well-cropped pit, because I think it accents the face. However, pits are beautiful and look like the same breed of dog whether they're cropped or not. (Dobes look lab-ish or Beauceron-ish without a crop/dock). Professionally done by a vet who knows what they are doing, I see no reason to hate it.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion. The pits I own will most likely all be rescues and therefore they will come to me how they come to me. The dobes I own will most likely be a combination of breeder-bred and rescues and I will probably have both natural and crop/docked somewhere along the line.

Either way, the dog deserves love and the best life they can get.

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Re: redux

Postby cecollins » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:51 am

duckzilla wrote:Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject: cut ears, docked tails --- whats up with that?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an innocent, perhaps naive question for all and anyone. I am a lover of the breed. Obviously. I wish to fight BSL, I wish to spread the love and joy of the APBT to all, just like "everyone" here. I say "everyone" as not all of you are owners of "APBT" but are "AMSTAFF" or "STAFFIE" owners or "MUTTS" :thumbsup: . ANYWAY... I get sidetracked so easily...

I'll preface the following with ... TO ME... it looks horrible. the dogs lose all sense of outward emotion. The ears of dogs are our closest link to their imagination, their hearts, their souls even. I know if my dog is going to have a good day when I see those perky ears half falling to her jowles, and when I see her tail going in FULL CIRCLE, I mean sometimes I think shes going to lift off, ass first its spinnin so fast. I love it... And speaking of tails... well same deal man... when my dog is pissed, that tail is as straight as a pointer, when she's happy its bowed and crooked sticking straight up, and oh when she wags... she cant even walk straight, its like a shimmy or something. Its totally hilarious and I have never seen anything like it. If she's going to have a bad day her ears are slovenly hanging down her head and its round you know people, when they have their ears down, and her tail isn't wagging its just sort of there. It breaks my heart to see her worried or having a bad day because i strive to make everyday better than the last for her. She is my life. And it's all so very clear that this breed supercedes all other dogs on the planet for their ability to be so compassionate. And I would never know that with out her tail and her ears.

Why do people, breeders, professional dog show people etc. still insist on docking tails and hacking ears off of these amazing, wonderful, sensitive, and intuitive companion animals. :huh?: I mean, isn't one of our PRIMARY functions in this forum, and beyond, to end the stigma of our beloved breed being a ring champion and morbid implement of destruction? Why must these same individuals speak out in hatred of the rest of society, when they themselves add to the negativity by having the tell tale signs of a ring dog, attack dog, vicious killer if you will...

I know that some of you on here have your dogs ears and tails hacked, and, I mean you no disrespect. I have honestly pure intentions to work together, and to fight the impending ban on our dogs, and to ensure (avoiding cliche) and secure for our posterity life, liberty and the persuit of happiness for this American Legend. :peace:




I completely agree with Duckzilla!!!

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Postby molucass » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:27 am

3 out of our 4 pit bulls ears are cropped. 2 of them were cropped when we got them, and I can tell you they were not done by a liscensed vet.
Mercy was done by someone at their home (with anethesia), and her ears are basically butchered.. They are WAY too short, and totally un-even.

Shane was also done by someone at their home, and from what I am told would not go out completely. They gave him a lot of anethesia, and every time his ear was touched, he would wake up and move around.. His ears are also uneven and look like crap.

Nevada was done by our vet. He is an older man, and his hands are quite as steady as they used to be, but for the most part her ears look good. They aren't exactly perfect though.

I do think it is painful for them to an extent. But we took care of both Shane and Nevada after their ears were done, and aside from their ears itching a little (mostly Nevada, Shane didn't that much), they didn't act as if they were hurting. Both of them had pain meds just in case they needed them.

Personally I think tail docking is ok if its done when they are newborns (at a vet). But only on breeds that are "supposed" to. Like rotties, boxers, dobies, etc. People in the town I live in, in SC sometimes won't buy a pit pup if its tail isn't docked.. I don't understand why people think a pit bull should have their tail cut off. It's not part of this breed.

I don't have a problem with cropping. It makes me sick to know how many people (especially in SC) get their dogs ears done by a "friend" at their home though.. I think if it is done by a vet, and it is done correctly, there shouldn't be a problem. I like the look.. I like cropped or natural.. I guess it just depends on the dog.

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Postby formaximus » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:23 pm

my first pit came to be with his ears cropped and tail docked. Now I have my own pup and I cannot see any reason why I would possibly do it. He is adorable as he is and I intend to keep him that way.

just my $.02. :thumbsup:

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Postby pitbullcrazy30 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:44 pm

its a hard one to call, ive had quite a few apbt and never croped the ears, when i got bruno his sire had croped ears and i thought he really lookes good, mabey i done the right thing? and mabey the wrong? but in the long run it was my choice to make. its up to you as the owner, but if you do decide to do it, get a good vet with lots of experience and be prepared to give it 100% to make sure you do the after care, jmo

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Postby Barron » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:22 am

No crop. :thumbsup:

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picara
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Postby picara » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:00 pm

I'm glad that most vets around here won't crop or dock, and I wouldn't go to a vet that did.


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