OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

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maximusflys
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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby maximusflys » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:31 pm

The funny thing is most people wouldn't understand how to communicate with a dog if it spoke in words never mind communicating through body language! I would like to know exactly what expressions you are losing with cropped ears?

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby sunny » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:10 pm

maximusflys wrote:The funny thing is most people wouldn't understand how to communicate with a dog if it spoke in words never mind communicating through body language! I would like to know exactly what expressions you are losing with cropped ears?



the best one is the old one ear forward one ear back "you don't expect me to believe that do you?" kind of half annoyed look.

rose perk ears go forward, sideways and back depending on the mood/excitement level of the dog. they also do any combination of these.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby teddy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:42 pm

maximusflys wrote:The funny thing is most people wouldn't understand how to communicate with a dog if it spoke in words never mind communicating through body language! I would like to know exactly what expressions you are losing with cropped ears?


LOL +1

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby sunny » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:55 pm

teddy wrote:
maximusflys wrote:The funny thing is most people wouldn't understand how to communicate with a dog if it spoke in words never mind communicating through body language! I would like to know exactly what expressions you are losing with cropped ears?


LOL +1


If you live with a dog for 14 years you defiantly get to know it's expressions. My last APBT was so communicative I half expected her to start barking out words any day. There were many ear signs. If she was annoyed she'd get up and give you "the back" basically she would sit with her back to you.
If she was impatient with you she would sit and stop her front feet back and forth, but getting one ear back was absolutely hysterical.

"Animal Communication" is downright silly, but dogs do have expression and body language that is easy to read if you spend any real amount of time with the animal.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby maximusflys » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:12 pm

You don't need to explain to me how a dog communicates. I understand it very well. My question to your reply was, what are the differences in ear expressions between a cropped and uncropped dog?

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby sunny » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:46 pm

uncropped have three states, with more nuances between them. the dog can combine these with each ear in a different state.

ears back can be annoyed or relaxed. ears in the middle are just normal. ears perked forward are attentive and focused.
more ear = more expression in the various combinations of these states.

my favorite is when the dog pulls one ear back, while the other is forward in a "you're freaking joking" manner.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby maximusflys » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:13 am

Ok, for the folks who think cropping is cruel, useless, and for cosmetics. That's fine for me, and it doesn't bother me. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. What bothers me is, the clueless folks that make comments like, cropped ears are prone to dog fights and dogs lose communication. Unless you have scientific evidence that proves this theory otherwise, than its just another matter of opinion and for me personally it should be kept to yourself!



Oh and by the way, in a "my freaking joking" manner. My dog can do all of the above that you mentioned including the one ear back one forward movement!

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby BrindleLvr » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:25 am

The government have just banned vets from completing both ear cropping and tail docking as well as dew claw removal in Nova Scotia.

:-S

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby sunny » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:49 am

maximusflys wrote:and for me personally it should be kept to yourself!



oh, so only your point of view can be part of the discussion?

if you don't want to hear other peoples opinions perhaps you should not take part in the discussion.

simply put dogs do communicate with their ears. this is proven and factual. imho more ear to communicate with does in fact equate a greater level of expression.


http://www.petplace.com/dogs/what-is-yo ... page1.aspx

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby buckaroo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:39 pm

I'm not a fan of cropping but there is no truth to the idea that a dog with cropped ears can't communicate normally.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby mommy2kane » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:52 pm

The article just posted just says what a dogs' ear position "may show". . . I really don't think it should be read into too much. I think people who own dogs with natural ears may SEE more "expressions" from their dogs -- since that's what they're used to. But I think someone who owns a dog with cropped ears probably sees just as many expressions from their own dogs.

Really, it's a matter of preference. I do think it's silly to say we lose communication. . .

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby sunny » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:11 pm

buckaroo wrote:I'm not a fan of cropping but there is no truth to the idea that a dog with cropped ears can't communicate normally.



i didn't say they cannot communicate normally, but rather that they seem to be less expressive.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby maximusflys » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:38 pm

sunny wrote:
buckaroo wrote:I'm not a fan of cropping but there is no truth to the idea that a dog with cropped ears can't communicate normally.



i didn't say they cannot communicate normally, but rather that they seem to be less expressive.



Based on what? Your opinion?

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby buckaroo » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:05 am

sunny wrote:
buckaroo wrote:I'm not a fan of cropping but there is no truth to the idea that a dog with cropped ears can't communicate normally.



i didn't say they cannot communicate normally, but rather that they seem to be less expressive.

Only if you're not used to "communicating" with a dog with cropped ears.

Neither of my dog's ears are cropped and I've never seen the thing you're talking about with one ear forward and the other back.

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Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Postby Kingsgurl » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:27 pm

Dogs use their ears quite a bit in communication and that IS a fact. Dogs with cropped ears still use their ears the same way, though they may require more attention to 'detail' to pick up on it. (battle crops where there is virtually no ear ARE hard to read) In actuallity, this CAN lead to problems for some cropped dogs in communication both with their own species and with those of our species who don't know them well. It's not like they CAN'T communicate with their ears at all, but like they have a speech impediment. Often other communication signals will become more pronounced.


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