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OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:25 pm
by ChevellesMomma
Courtney, please just stop while you are ahead.

Well, I guess we will just agree to disagree. Some "debate" thread this is. Sounds more like "I think you suck and are a horrible dog owner because you want to crop your dogs ears" thread. I guess you can tell my doggy, who gets more than half my paycheck put towards her, that I'm a bad bad and selfish Mommy. :lol:

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:50 pm
by starrlamia
ChevellesMomma wrote:Courtney, please just stop while you are ahead.

Well, I guess we will just agree to disagree. Some "debate" thread this is. Sounds more like "I think you suck and are a horrible dog owner because you want to crop your dogs ears" thread. I guess you can tell my doggy, who gets more than half my paycheck put towards her, that I'm a bad bad and selfish Mommy. :lol:

The fact that you think it doesn't hurt really boggles my mind, it sounds like you convinced yourself if that so you don't feel as bad doing it.
Considering a cartilage piercing in the ear hurts, I think it's pretty safe to say having part of your ear cut off would be very painful. Animals don't often show pain or illness as a survival mechanism.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:15 pm
by Celesteandthebullies
Heck, a non-cartilage ear piercing will hurt a bit afterward, at least mine did. The initial piercing only burned, but it hurt for a month or so after.

OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:28 pm
by ChevellesMomma
I'm sure it doesn't hurt, properly done. Without pain meds, sure, I bet it hurts like a biotch.

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:42 pm
by Shearaha1
Celesteandthebullies wrote:Heck, a non-cartilage ear piercing will hurt a bit afterward, at least mine did. The initial piercing only burned, but it hurt for a month or so after.

I got my cartilage pierced in 2000. It was OK for a bit, then got infected about a month out. I still have pain when something hits that part of my ear suddenly or quickly and sharply. After that no one can tell me that ear cropping isn't painful.

Also in the last year I've met almost a dozen dogs, primarily boxers and danes, that developed sound sensitivity and sound reactivity AFTER ear cropping that was not present before.

OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:14 am
by AllisonPitbullLvr
So don't use a furminator because it's a BLADE and you could hurt your dog but go ahead and crop ears with a scapel (which is a BLADE) because it doesn't hurt...

OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:59 am
by Stormi
ChevellesMomma wrote:I'm sure it doesn't hurt, properly done. Without pain meds, sure, I bet it hurts like a biotch.


Just out of curiosity, have you ever had any major surgery that required you to take pain meds afterwards?

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:02 pm
by starrlamia
ChevellesMomma wrote:I'm sure it doesn't hurt, properly done. Without pain meds, sure, I bet it hurts like a biotch.

um, pain meds denotes it hurting properly done or not.

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:30 pm
by Courtneyd137
Im saying its selfish to do it for personal reasons. How would you feel if someone cut half your ear off just so you can win in shows and just because they LIKED the look thats selfish it does nothing for the dog it puts the dog thru surgery when can be life threatning if the dog is allergic to the anestetic just so you can get some money in a stupid show or because you like the look you would put your dog in danger for some stupid dog show wins Yeah thats selfish you care about winning more then you do the walfare of your dog.. I would understand if it was for medical purpose for just to win a show or for the look thats DUMB

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:38 pm
by Mooresmajestic
ChevellesMomma wrote:I'm convinced it doesn't hurt because I have EXPERIENCE, not an Internet article. :lol:


I have experience, professional, surgical experience. I worked for a vet that did ear crops for years, and the only surgery that required the dog to be sedated after it woke up from the procedure was an ear crop and that was with 3 different types of after care pain meds. Major fracture repairs and FHOs received less pain meds than ear crops. I have watched one too many dogs wake up from surgery screaming and slamming around the cage because of pain from a crop to ever want to put a dog of my own through that purely for looks (and yes I have show dogs, and natural ears have NEVER altered a judges placement of my dog). Unless you have worked in a surgical suite and assisted in the actual procedure, you can't claim "experience". You can say you want the ears cropped because you like the look, prefer the expression it gives or any thing else, but don't say it doesn't hurt to have done.

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:35 am
by Shearaha1
Mooresmajestic wrote:
ChevellesMomma wrote:I'm convinced it doesn't hurt because I have EXPERIENCE, not an Internet article. :lol:


I have experience, professional, surgical experience. I worked for a vet that did ear crops for years, and the only surgery that required the dog to be sedated after it woke up from the procedure was an ear crop and that was with 3 different types of after care pain meds. Major fracture repairs and FHOs received less pain meds than ear crops. I have watched one too many dogs wake up from surgery screaming and slamming around the cage because of pain from a crop to ever want to put a dog of my own through that purely for looks (and yes I have show dogs, and natural ears have NEVER altered a judges placement of my dog). Unless you have worked in a surgical suite and assisted in the actual procedure, you can't claim "experience". You can say you want the ears cropped because you like the look, prefer the expression it gives or any thing else, but don't say it doesn't hurt to have done.

:goodpost:

OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:43 am
by ChevellesMomma
Yes, I can say it doesn't hurt to have it done if it is done properly. Those dogs that woke up screaming obviously didn't get the right amount of meds and get it done PROPERLY. I have never had a dog be in pain, because they were on pain meds 24/7 until they healed, point blank.

You see, this whole "debate" would be fine and dandy, except it's not a debate. It's a bashing thread. I will never call someone names for having a different opinion than me. Do you know what that's called? It's called being a bigot. So saying I'm "selfish" and whatever else was said is just childish and further proves that you're running out of decency in a debate so you have to take low blows. I feel sorry for those that can't debate without resorting to those sorts of things.

I am not against ear cropping or tail docking, if it is done properly.

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:08 am
by Kingsgurl
She's not talking about dogs going home, medicated. She's talking about how they come OUT of anesthesia, before those other meds come into play. I wouldn't be so quick to discount people who watch dogs wake up, they are there, they see it. You are free to make your own choices on 'if it hurts' or'is the pain worth it to me' but I've seen it too. My Vet won't do them anymore because of it. It haunts you. But then they go home all medicated in their cones and the owners are all 'see, it doesn't hurt at all!"

OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:57 am
by AllisonPitbullLvr
ChevellesMomma wrote:Yes, I can say it doesn't hurt to have it done if it is done properly. Those dogs that woke up screaming obviously didn't get the right amount of meds and get it done PROPERLY. I have never had a dog be in pain, because they were on pain meds 24/7 until they healed, point blank.

You see, this whole "debate" would be fine and dandy, except it's not a debate. It's a bashing thread. I will never call someone names for having a different opinion than me. Do you know what that's called? It's called being a bigot. So saying I'm "selfish" and whatever else was said is just childish and further proves that you're running out of decency in a debate so you have to take low blows. I feel sorry for those that can't debate without resorting to those sorts of things.

I am not against ear cropping or tail docking, if it is done properly.


It's hard to hold a debate when your argument is that in your "experience", ear cropping doesn't hurt. It's like someone in a debate on global warming claiming that the sun is not our source of energy-- it's so logically and scientifically ludicrous that it makes the person making the argument lose all credibility.

You can support ear cropping, you can have your dogs ears done however you like, but you can't claim it doesn't hurt, based on your "experience" without seeming ignorant.

And you still haven't explained what said experience is.

Many of us who understand and put into place post-op pain control protocols feel that needing to use a SEDATIVE following an ELECTIVE procedure simply to keep the animal comfortable upon recovery is nearly barbaric. For you to suggest that Moore's clinic simply didn't follow protocols for pain management properly makes your whole argument seem childish.

Do some research on pain response and management protocols and THEN suggest that ear cropping, just like ANY surgery isn't painful. The difference is, ear cropping is cosmetic and elective.

Re: OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:33 am
by Courtneyd137
it is selfish because your doing it for your personal reason's. IT does NOTHING for the dog.

The dog could die during surgery because of the anestetic but you wouldnt care because all you want is to win some dog shows

You would possible RISK your dogs life just to win some money why would you make your dog go thru a surgery just so YOU can get something out of it THe dog doesnt care if he wins in shows or not

Please dont risk your dogs life just to win a few dog shows... The dog gets nothing out of winning its selfish because its for your personal reasons. If it was for medical reasons yea but its not so dont do it.. You can win shows with the natural look. Ive seen pits with cropped ears The natural look is alot better.. My dog would not go thru any surgery thats not needed the only surgery she ever had was getting her spayed