OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

[Mooresmajestic]

Yes, I can say it doesn't hurt to have it done if it is done properly. Those dogs that woke up screaming obviously didn't get the right amount of meds and get it done PROPERLY.

Actually the dogs were given 3 types of pain meds before the procedure was even started so pain management was effective upon waking. There is a reason the vet's keep the dog overnight after a crop, it's so the owners don't see what their pet looks and acts like for the first 24 hours.

[starrlamia]

But it does hurt, as pain meds are required, and do you really keep your dogs in pain meds for several weeks straight?

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[MarMar]

Yes, I can say it doesn't hurt to have it done if it is done properly. Those dogs that woke up screaming obviously didn't get the right amount of meds and get it done PROPERLY. I have never had a dog be in pain, because they were on pain meds 24/7 until they healed, point blank.

You see, this whole "debate" would be fine and dandy, except it's not a debate. It's a bashing thread. I will never call someone names for having a different opinion than me. Do you know what that's called? It's called being a bigot. So saying I'm "selfish" and whatever else was said is just childish and further proves that you're running out of decency in a debate so you have to take low blows. I feel sorry for those that can't debate without resorting to those sorts of things.

I am not against ear cropping or tail docking, if it is done properly.

This is an internet forum. Yes, it's a place for debate, but it is also a place for people to state opinions. When you come to a dog lover's forum and state that you will crop your dog's ears because you like the way it looks and you don't care otherwise, and then state that it does not hurt, which is completely false, you have to accept that people will vehemently disagree with you. This is not "bashing". This is people who care about animal welfare above aesthetics expressing their concerns.

This is the proper definition of "bigot" for future reference: "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance".

Seems like you are the one doing the name calling here.

[NAILHEAD]

I personally think cropping and docking is wrong and cruel to animals. They were not born this way and have no choice in the matter. It's pure vanity and serves zero purpose for dogs today. I consider it "trendy" and animal abuse especially ( like i said before) because they have no say in the matter. The best read up I got from a quick search was this :

" Robert Wansborough argued in a 1996 paper that docking tails puts dogs at a disadvantage in several ways. First, dogs use their tails to communicate with other dogs (and with people); a dog without a tail might be significantly handicapped in conveying fear, caution, aggression, playfulness, and so on. Certain breeds use their tails as rudders when swimming, and possibly for balance when running, so active dogs with docked tails might be at a disadvantage compared to their tailed peers. In 2007, Stephen Leaver, a graduate student at the University of Victoria, published a paper on tail docking which found that tail length was important in the transmission of social cues. The study found that dogs with shorter tails (docked tails) would be approached with caution, as if the approaching dog was unsure of the emotional state of the docked dog. The study goes on to suggest that dogs with docked tails may grow up to be more aggressive. The reasoning postulated by Tom Reimchen, UVic Biologist and supervisor of the study, was that dogs who grew up without being able to efficiently transmit social cues would grow up to be more anti-social and thus more aggressive. "

[ChelseaB]

I'll do what I want with my dog .

Given that this is the common mantra of those who choose to fight dogs, chain them, abuse and neglect them, these are probably not the best choice of words to use in a Pit Bull forum.

My 3 pit bulls are my 3 children, and while I don't necessarily hate the look of cropped ears, I would never willingly subject my babies to a painful, unnecessary cosmetic procedure. Especially concerning their ears! A dogs ears (and tail) speak VOLUMES of their mental state. Not to mention, how friggin cute is it when you get that one ear up, one ear down look from a pit? It's heart melting!

If you want a dog with cropped ears, please, please check your shelters! There are literally thousands of amazing, earless pits just waiting for someone to scoop them up!

[AllisonPitbullLvr]

I can do both? I can fight for the reputation of the breed and disagree about cropping. I'm a good multitasker.

[MarMar]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

Agreed with Allison. This post is full of inconsistencies and fallacies. I'm for animal welfare, and that includes responsible dog ownership, AND not surgically removing parts of dogs that belong left on.

[Enigma]

people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping)

How is cropping supporting the breed standard? Please explain. Here in Europe there are more and more countries where cropping is illigal and showing a cropped dog is forbidden. I've just seen that even Croatia will be joining countries who have these laws next year and Croatia is VERY strong in the Amstaff world. People will HAVE TO have uncropped dogs if they will want to participate in dog shows, you know, those things where judges judge dogs how they fit the BREED STANDARD? And even on pitbull shows I've been to so far most judges disqualified a cropped dog, or cropped dogs werent even allowed to participate. A part of a breed standard is also the correct position of the tail and ear set, if you crop them you will never know if the dog has a correct tail/ear set, with cropping you can easily hide miskates like a gay tail, kinked tail, flat ears, bat ears, etc. If you judge a breed by a breed standard those things are important. So yeah, cropping makes even less sense.

[Celesteandthebullies]

Yeeeeaaah... a lot of ADBA judges don't like crops. Standard for some breeds (Oh! the lovely UKC made it so that a dog cannot be docked points for being natural) but not the APBT

[Mooresmajestic]

Actually....

All 3 major kennel clubs (AKC, UKC, ADBA) state:

UKC-
EARS - Ears are high set and may be natural or cropped without preference. Prick or flat, wide ears are not desired.

AKC-
Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized.

(I can't pull up the ADBA standard on my phone, it's a pdf, but it says the same thing as the other 2.)

Just because the registry allows for cropped ears in the standard, it does not make it THE standard.

[snikles]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

If you want to do good for the breed then stop cropping their ears.

[jamielvsaustin]

I really can not understand what good come this thread I been looking at it since i got my new pit puppy and it did not change my mind just like atleast 99% of readers. We just got Samson back from the Vet and is please with his crop. This thread seems to be move about causing people to be put in one of two camps the ones that support the Breed Standard (cropping) and the ones that do not and causing them to fight over it instead of working together and fighting against those who are a real danger to the breed. People who abuse them by fighting them or just trying to make them means and those who allow their fears to get the best of them and trying to out law our wonderful dogs. Anybody can call names and point fingers on a website instead about we see if we can do some good for the Breed

^^^This coming from a person who believes they have a tiger striped brindle gator mouth....Likely, the dog you have isn't even an APBT.

Along with what Moores posted (which discredits your "support the breed standard") you seem to have little knowledge on the breed.

I personally would never crop a dog in any way that was unneeded. I'll never be able to understand "because I like the way it looks" argument. To me, it's an unnecessary risk. But if someone else wants to, I just hope they do as much research about it and the after care as possible...and then research the best vet in their area to perform the surgery. From what I understand (like Enigma pointed out) it's getting harder and harder to find vets that will do it.

[Breezy833]

having had a rottweiler for 8 years. I like a tailless dog. And the little nub is extra cute when it wiggles. Im sure as you well know the docking was done when she was days old. Had she had a tail when i got her, that would have been fine too. My current pup has all the parts he was born with. Living in an area for poor ownership of pit bulls i think ear cropping sends the wrong message. I'm still getting used to him sweeping things off the table with his tail tho.

[cookiexd40]

I'll do what I want with my dog .

Given that this is the common mantra of those who choose to fight dogs, chain them, abuse and neglect them, these are probably not the best choice of words to use in a Pit Bull forum.

My 3 pit bulls are my 3 children, and while I don't necessarily hate the look of cropped ears, I would never willingly subject my babies to a painful, unnecessary cosmetic procedure. Especially concerning their ears! A dogs ears (and tail) speak VOLUMES of their mental state. Not to mention, how friggin cute is it when you get that one ear up, one ear down look from a pit? It's heart melting!

If you want a dog with cropped ears, please, please check your shelters! There are literally thousands of amazing, earless pits just waiting for someone to scoop them up!

I agree with her


Sent via rotary phone txt MSG

[HersheyBear]

She's not talking about dogs going home, medicated. She's talking about how they come OUT of anesthesia, before those other meds come into play. I wouldn't be so quick to discount people who watch dogs wake up, they are there, they see it. You are free to make your own choices on 'if it hurts' or'is the pain worth it to me' but I've seen it too. My Vet won't do them anymore because of it. It haunts you. But then they go home all medicated in their cones and the owners are all 'see, it doesn't hurt at all!"

On a semi related note, it's the same with cats that get declawed. They're so miserable while waking up and during the aftercare, and many of them have arthritis and pain issues after, but the owners see them after the pain patch and treatment and think that the cat's fine.