OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Postby SpudsBud » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:12 pm

I don't think cropping pitbulls exactly helps their image. Part of the problem with the general publics perception of them is caused by the way people dress them up to make them look, lets face it, scarier. I guarantee you a pitbull with a bandana rather than a studded spiked collar, and natural floppy ears instead of hacked up ones would be less intimidating to just about EVERYONE. And the fact these dogs intimidate and scare people is one of the main reasons why so many want them gone.
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Postby SpudsBud » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:25 pm

Um, and for those of you who rationalize ear cropping by saying its the same as circumcision....there's one major difference: Humans don't go walking around with their penises constantly on display.
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Postby blover27 » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:31 pm

CHRIS09 wrote:Um, and for those of you who rationalize ear cropping by saying its the same as circumcision....there's one major difference: Humans don't go walking around with their penises constantly on display.

speak for yourself lol

ok thats not funny....or is it :huh?:
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Postby mnp13 » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:04 pm

CHRIS09 wrote:Um, and for those of you who rationalize ear cropping by saying its the same as circumcision....there's one major difference: Humans don't go walking around with their penises constantly on display.


It's the exact same thing - removing 'extra' skin for no reason except for how it looks.

There is no medical reason for circumcision. In countries where less than 1% of their population is circumcisied (such as most European countries) they have an almost non-existant rate of penile cancer. Which is one of the 'reasons' often given for the procedure.

Oh, wait, there is a HUGE difference - there are thousands of people putting millions of dollars into crusading to protect the rights of dogs to not have their ears cropped while under anestetic. There is no similar group of crusaders trying to protect human babies from having their foreskin cut off and stitched without the benefit of being unconscience.

I guess the difference is that the rights of dogs to not have an unnessary surgery are more important than the rights of humans not to have one.

Michelle
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Postby SKoth » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:11 pm

Ok, so I haven't read through this entire thread cause it's so long so forgive me if this has been posted. Personally I oppose ear cropping and wouldn't take a knife or anesthesia to my dogs for any unnecessary reason. In case your interested this is the American Animal Hospital Association's offical policy on ear cropping and tail docking.

Ear Cropping/Tail Docking Position Statement
Ear cropping and/or tail docking in pets for cosmetic reasons are not medically indicated nor of benefit to the patient. These procedures cause pain and distress, and, as with all surgical procedures, are accompanied by inherent risks of anesthetic complications, hemorrhage, and infection. Therefore, the American Animal Hospital Association opposes both the cropping of ears and the docking of tails when done solely for cosmetic reasons. Veterinarians should counsel and educate pet owners that these procedures should not be performed unless medically necessary. The American Animal Hospital Association also encourages the elimination of ear cropping and tail docking from breed standards.

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Postby violet » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:16 pm

Ok..comparing circumsized to non circumsized. I have dealt with both in baby boys. When they are babies it is certainly easier to keep them sanitary if they are circumsized. That was why I chose to have my sons done. I actually had two boys at one time, one mine and one a boy i was babysitting. They are the sme age. I know it was more difficult to clean my friends son. He also got an infection about 3 years ago because he was not cleaning himself properly (the boys are ten now) So yeah..as a woman who has dealt with both..I would say there are sound reasons for circumsision.

dogs ears...well it is strictly for personal taste. I have known people who are quick to say a cropped dog is a pit..a dog with floppy ears they dont recognize as fast. (non bully people obviously)

Me..I think cropped ears look great but I could never put a puppy through it. JMHO.
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Postby SpudsBud » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:50 am

Yeah I suppose there is the sanitary aspect to circumcision. But parents don't have their kids circumcised to make them look cooler and win beauty pageants.
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Postby mnp13 » Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:00 pm

CHRIS09 wrote:Yeah I suppose there is the sanitary aspect to circumcision. But parents don't have their kids circumcised to make them look cooler and win beauty pageants.


No, they do it 'because everyone else does it'. That's a MUCH better reason :roll:

As for the sanitary issues, I know a number of guys who are not, and they don't have any issues. They were taught to clean themselves correctly. I would venture a guess that the difficulty that Violet had with the child she cared for was partly because it was unfamiliar. If a little girl does not clean herself correclty she will also get an infection.

Michelle
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Postby Kara » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:24 pm

In regards to a few posts I read... sorry can't remember who, this is long dam thread...

- as far as people being more intimidated by pits with cropped ears. This may or may not be the case, however, my Pit Bull has floppy ears and in the past month (due to all of the BSL crap going on in Ontario) a large number of people who see us when we are walking down the street cross the road. People do know what a Pit Bull is if there ears are not done, and people think pit bulls in general are intimidating, not just the cropped ones. Now, I walk my cropped Presa mix down the road, and people flock to her. They stick there face in her face (which I am always amazed people could be so stupid. Not that Im worried about my dog, but they dont even know us, and they stick there face in hers... :thumbsup: ) It is unfortunatly not an ear issue, its a breed issue.

- in regards to dogs with cropped ears not being able to hear as well. Jada has full range of her ears, and will cup them in any direction to hear whats going on. We were sitting on the bed the other day commenting on it, because we were behind her, and she was listening to us, and her ears went from frontwards, to the tops flipping back, and listening behind her. She can also flip them down when she is outside if its raining, so nothing gets in them.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:06 pm

many people have asked me what breed Eli is and then when I say pit bull terrier they say "oh i couldnt tell without the cropped ears" :(
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Postby Kara » Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:12 pm

Things must be different there then they are here then, because I see 25 pit bulls with natural ears, to every 1 with cropped ears.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:40 pm

yea
I have yet to see a single pit in this town with cropped ears. :dunno:
a kid i use to be friends with got a pit puppy and he brought it to the vet and said he wanted the ears cropped the vet simply said "people dont do that stuff anymore" and he was like Oh Ok, cool.
and got the shots and left :)
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Postby mydogroxy » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:34 pm

i too see many more uncropped pits than ones who are cropped. most people are able to pick out a pit that has natural ears though. roxy is a smaller pit (around 45 lbs.) and has natural ears and people cross the street to avoid us alll the time.

as for the whole pit bull image thing. i think a well behaved dog with proper temperment is far more impressive than one who has natural ears. part of the education process is teaching people that just because a dog looks powerful, intimidating, etc. doesn't mean it's aggressive. not cropping a dog because he'll look less threatening really isn't that important.
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Postby mnp13 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:51 pm

AllAmericanPUP wrote:many people have asked me what breed Eli is and then when I say pit bull terrier they say "oh i couldnt tell without the cropped ears"


I don't want to sound like an rude bitch, and this is just my opinion, but Eli isn't the best dog to use as 'people don't know is breed because of his ears' example. I would never in a million years say that he is a Pit Bull, if anything he looks like an American Bulldog. Even if he did have cropped ears he wouldn't look like one - his head shape is 'wrong' as is his body shape.

Michelle
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Postby mnp13 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:57 pm

mydogroxy wrote:as for the whole pit bull image thing. i think a well behaved dog with proper temperment is far more impressive than one who has natural ears. part of the education process is teaching people that just because a dog looks powerful, intimidating, etc. doesn't mean it's aggressive. not cropping a dog because he'll look less threatening really isn't that important.


:goodpost:

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