For those of you that DON'T feed raw....

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Deniselynn
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For those of you that DON'T feed raw....

Postby Deniselynn » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:05 pm

Just curious for those of you that don't feed raw, what are your reasons? I currently feed dry in the morning and raw at night. I have a difficult time balancing the raw because the dogs won't eat organ meat and Logan refuses to eat poultry.

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chewbecca
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Postby chewbecca » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:37 pm

Have you tried blending the organ meat? Ella wouldn't eat organ meat when I started feeding her raw so I had to put it in my blender and practically liquify it and mix it in with her ground meat.

Now, if she won't eat something I put in front of her, she has approximately 5-10 minutes and then it goes back in the fridge and she gets nothing until the next meal.

So far the ONLY thing I can't get my dog to eat is if I try to feed her an egg with the eggshell mixed in. She'll eat the egg, but not the shell.
She'll eat completely powdered eggshells that I mix in with her food.

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Postby Libby » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:35 pm

I do the same thing with the organ meat. I blend them, then mix it with the hamburger, and the girls eat it up really quick!

I'm currently on a half cooked, half raw diet.


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Postby Pipbull » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:20 pm

kibble is easier. I will be the first to say that I don't know enough about nutrition to feed my dog raw, and I am having great results with my kibble. I'd like to feed raw, but I am so unsure about it, I am sticking with kibble.

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:54 pm

Its easier, and I know too much to trust myself to cook for my dogs...

They do get raw treats however. I have no problem with it, I just don't think I'm capable of doing it well.

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Postby Brutus's Mommy » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:02 pm

I don't have the time, patience, energy or money to feed raw.

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Postby Monika » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:08 pm

I don't feel comfortable with feeding raw. And to be honest it kinda grosses me out. I feed Wellness and I think it's great. Q gets raw treats once every couple weeks. I do understand that it is probably better for him if I did feed raw I just don't think I could commit to it. :dunno:

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Postby msvette2u » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:51 pm

Monika wrote:I don't feel comfortable with feeding raw. And to be honest it kinda grosses me out. I feed Wellness and I think it's great. Q gets raw treats once every couple weeks. I do understand that it is probably better for him if I did feed raw I just don't think I could commit to it. :dunno:

I've seen too many dogs get violently ILL while eating raw, just watching these message boards. Recently one dog had to be hospitalized.
And kibble is easier, has all the nutrition a dog needs and, well, I've not had one dog hospitalized for eating it. :thumbsup:

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Postby Sarah » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:12 pm

My dogs do fabulous on the good quality kibble I feed them, and I'm not a believer in the mystical powers of RAW. They do get a raw treat once in a while, but just because they like it.

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LindsaySF
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Re: For those of you that DON'T feed raw....

Postby LindsaySF » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:38 pm

Deniselynn wrote:Just curious for those of you that don't feed raw, what are your reasons?

Health reasons. I'm getting my Master's in Microbiology/Parasitology, and my B.S. is in Biomedical Sciences. Eventually my plan is to persue a career in the field of epidemiology and public health. I started off pre-veterinary, and I worked as a vet tech, so I often post in the health section here. ;)

The CDC recommends cooking all meats, even if fed to pets. Even human-grade meat gets contaminated occasionally with bacteria and parasites, that's just the way it is. Some farms are much better now about feeding controlled diets, etc, but nothing is perfect. Our slaughterhouses leave A LOT to be desired. And a lot of freezing temperatures are just not cold enough to kill the bacteria and parasites, you have to cook it, or freeze it for many months.

I know of multiple cases on forums (though not this one) where a raw-fed dog suddenly came down with a 'mystery illness', and 2 cases recently were serious enough to involve IV fluids and hospitalization. All of the symptoms (severe vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, anorexia, etc) were classic signs of bacterial toxicity / food poisoning. One person even joked about their dog having trouble getting up after vomiting everywhere (after eating some 'maybe rotten' deer meat). I'm sorry, but that just should not happen. :frown: I feed my dogs kibble, and I have NEVER had problems like that.

Besides the kibble, my guys get cooked meat (mostly chicken). They love it, and they've never been healthier. No disrespect, but there are some claims by raw feeders that have no scientific backing whatsoever. Feeding raw and kibble at different times, cooking meat ruins all the nutrients, etc. (If anyone has evidence about this stuff, please send it my way!)

One claim was even that raw food can help "up" the immune system of a sick animal. The scientist in me absolutely cringed at this. You never ever want to feed raw meat to young, ill, or elderly animals. Their immune system is not up to par and feeding them food that may contain millions of bacteria is just asking for a problem.

When it comes to stuff like bacterial and parasitological disease, organizations like the CDC know what they're talking about. No offense to anyone who feeds raw, but I'll take the CDC's word, the word of the top pet nutritionists at Tufts University, and the word of my Ph.D. colleagues at Yale before I take the word of some random dog owner. :dunno:

I'm sorry if some of that sounded rude, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Besides the health issues, I'm also lazy and kibble is easier! lol





~Lindsay~

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Postby chako » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:01 am

I mostly feed kibble, but when I run out of kibble, I generally feed raw (i.e., if I'm waiting for a shipment).

Frankly, I notice very little difference in my dogs between raw and kibble except for the poop and the teeth :)

Cooking DOES in fact destroy some nutrients. There are loads of scientific studies on that. Not ALL nutrients, of course, else WE wouldn't get any nutrients from cooked foods.

Dogs can be susceptible to bacteria, etc., but frankly, I've never personally seen a case, and knowing how many dogs eat POOP (which is loaded with bacteria), me thinks the digestive system of a normal, healthy dog is probably more than capable of dealing with such bacteria. Compromised or genetically susceptible dogs, however, can and do get sick from such things.

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chako
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Postby chako » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:01 am

I mostly feed kibble, but when I run out of kibble, I generally feed raw (i.e., if I'm waiting for a shipment).

Frankly, I notice very little difference in my dogs between raw and kibble except for the poop and the teeth :)

Cooking DOES in fact destroy some nutrients. There are loads of scientific studies on that. Not ALL nutrients, of course, else WE wouldn't get any nutrients from cooked foods.

Dogs can be susceptible to bacteria, etc., but frankly, I've never personally seen a case, and knowing how many dogs eat POOP (which is loaded with bacteria), me thinks the digestive system of a normal, healthy dog is probably more than capable of dealing with such bacteria. Compromised or genetically susceptible dogs, however, can and do get sick from such things.

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LindsaySF
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Postby LindsaySF » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:28 am

chako wrote:Cooking DOES in fact destroy some nutrients. There are loads of scientific studies on that.

Like some proteins, they denature when heat is applied. The amount of heat needed to denature the protein depends on the complexity of the protein's structure.

Not ALL nutrients, of course, else WE wouldn't get any nutrients from cooked foods.

That was my point. :thumbsup:

Dogs can be susceptible to bacteria, etc., but frankly, I've never personally seen a case, and knowing how many dogs eat POOP (which is loaded with bacteria), me thinks the digestive system of a normal, healthy dog is probably more than capable of dealing with such bacteria.

Depends on what's in the poop. ;) And some meat contains particularly virulent strains of bacteria, it's kinda scary.




~Lindsay~

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:15 am

chako wrote:Dogs can be susceptible to bacteria, etc., but frankly, I've never personally seen a case, and knowing how many dogs eat POOP (which is loaded with bacteria), me thinks the digestive system of a normal, healthy dog is probably more than capable of dealing with such bacteria. Compromised or genetically susceptible dogs, however, can and do get sick from such things.


The bacteria found in poop is VERY different from the harmful bacteria that cause disease. Harmful bacteria are found in incredibly low and non-harmful numbers due to the overwhelming numbers of happy, healthy, non-toxin producing gram positives that we all love so much. Yogurt anyone??

and Lindsay... I LOVED your post!!! :inlove: :inlove:

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Postby GSDBulldog » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:51 am

It's easier to feed kibble when you are housing 5 dogs, with the ocassional foster or two. We used to feed raw, but apart from it being messy and time-consuming, we never saw a dramatic difference (They had been on Wellness at the time).

I can commend those who do feed it, but until I know more about it I will be sticking to good ol' fashioned kibble.


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