For those of you that DON'T feed raw....

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Lollipup
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Postby Lollipup » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:01 pm

I know this is an old thread, but since there are new responses, I just wanted to add in why I do NOT feed raw, personally.

Cost...I do buy high-quality kibble, but I have 6 dogs and I have not found a way to work out a raw diet cost. It just cannot fit the budget, right now.
Convenience...I like measuring out my pups' kibble, dumping in a bowl and not worrying about a mess. I am also one that does not believe I can properly balance each of my dogs' nutritional needs.

I add in HEALTHY leftovers from our own dinner a few times a week. When boiling chicken or hamburger meat, I'll give the dogs some before I season it. They get certain veggies (some of the pups are picky), and even some whole grain bread.

I have to also admit that I am of the belief that, dogs ARE NOT wolves. I do not view them as such. They are domesticated animals, and are no longer meant to always have raw. I'm fine with people that feed raw, but I have absolutely no reason to, if I could afford it. Our dogs are no longer "wild," and hunting for fresh meat is not necessary.

Everyone I know, feeds kibble. Those I talked to about feeding raw, basically looked down on me for feeding kibble...like I am supposed to just KNOW raw is best, and not have any questions. People here at this forum are much more open to advocate raw feeding and supply information, which is cool. I've gathered SO MUCH info here. While I'll continue to feed kibble supplemented with healthy scraps, I appreciate all the info I have gathered and all the opinions shared, and links, as well.

Not to make this too long, but things are going great for myself, my pups and all those that we know. I even know people that feed absolute JUNK dog food, and their dogs are healthy (yearly vet checks prove it). The rest of my pups back home (4 more of 'em), are eating less-than-good food, too, and they're alright. My boxer is anemic, but that's not food-related. Growing up, my Cocker Spaniel was fed whatever my grandparents could afford at any given time (i was just a baby, so no decision making for me!). He lived to be around 17, so I can't say I see much wrong with feeding kibble.

I keep an open mind. I'd like to try feeding raw, eventually. Just a trial thing. If I like the results, I might stick with it, but I just can't right now.

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hwillm1977
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Postby hwillm1977 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:29 pm

For me it's a mixture of the cost and intimidation factor.

I'd like to get a few books before I start feeding raw so that I really know what I'm doing before I end up screwing up my dogs. They do get raw for treats once in a while and inhale the food so I know they would love it, but I'm intimidated by it.

I'd also like to be producing my own meat so that it works out a lot cheaper.

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Postby EmmasMom » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:46 pm

Cost is the major one. Time is another. Kibble is SO much easier, which I know is a cop-out, but with a baby and another on the way...ya know. Plus...she is doing well on kibble, so...why fix what's not broke? But, mostly cost.

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luvmybulls
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Postby luvmybulls » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:52 am

Pipbull wrote:kibble is easier. I will be the first to say that I don't know enough about nutrition to feed my dog raw, and I am having great results with my kibble. I'd like to feed raw, but I am so unsure about it, I am sticking with kibble.


My situation exactly. Raw would probably be cheaper than the EVO I feed now but it's never been about the money. I'm also not a big fan of raw chicken kisses from my monsters. :)

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jlphilli
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Postby jlphilli » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:48 am

My reasons:

-I'm a germ freak (for myself--I am one of those that will wash my hands like 12 times after I cracked an egg lol)

-I'm WAY too busy to prepare raw food or to search for suppliers.

-I do not feel like dumping out my wallet for pre-made raw.

-I do not have a separate freezer (my freezer is full enough as it is!)

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Postby Enamorada » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Pipbull wrote:kibble is easier. I will be the first to say that I don't know enough about nutrition to feed my dog raw, and I am having great results with my kibble. I'd like to feed raw, but I am so unsure about it, I am sticking with kibble.


Ditto. :tongue:

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Postby cecollins » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:58 am

Pipbull wrote:kibble is easier. I will be the first to say that I don't know enough about nutrition to feed my dog raw, and I am having great results with my kibble. I'd like to feed raw, but I am so unsure about it, I am sticking with kibble.


This is my reasonigs as well. ALthough someday I would love to try.

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Postby Enigma » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:11 pm

My main reason is that i don't trust our meat and i'm afraid of salmonella, parasites and other bad stuff. Plus meat here is VERY expensive. I tried to feed raw chicken to Brina only once... A week of bloody diahrea and a few vet bills later i decided not to do that ever again. I do cook for the dogs 2-3 times/week, but i feed mostly kibble - the best one i can get here. It's easier, cheaper, safer and my dogs do great on it.

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Postby IlovemyMONGO » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Because Raw meat makes me want to :yucky: ! LOL!

I am not a vegetarian though, but raw meat makes me :yucky: . My shihtzu gets hamburger and brown rice every so often(but, it is cooked).

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Postby Tytanium » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:03 am

Zane gets kibble in the AM and raw in the evening.

Kibble: Timberwolf Bison (Expensive these days) or Call of the Wild. Zane does really well on either. He gets a single pump of salmon oil in his kibble.

Raw: We chose Natures Variety patties based on the fact that it is a balanced / complete diet, competitively priced with the other raw foods and readily available. We switch "flavors" about 1 a week when we start a new sleeve/bag. "Flavors" include venison, beef, chicken, lamb, wabbit....

We've had zero problems with the switching of raw each week. There was a 3 - 4 adjustment period when we first moved from and all kibble to the raw in the evening.

We never mix raw and kibble in the same feeding. I understand that the k9 digestive system is designed to handle one type of protein at a time. This makes sense given K9s in the wild rarely encounter a buffet in the woods.

We sometimes add (only to the raw) apple, carrots, strawberries, pear (rare), finely ground egg shell (rare and in small amounts - less than 1/4 of a shell) and occasional blue berries or raspberries. Basically he gets a few slices of whatever appropriate produce we are eating.

Treats - our dog only gets single ingredient - all meat treats (using caution to use organ meat in very limited amounts). For example - the bag reads "Ingredient: Beef" or "Ingredient: Lamb". They are not cheap. We also use the produce (apple slivers, halved baby carrots and bruised strawberry bits) as treats.

When we adopted out dog he was on Science Diet (what the shelter used). We stuck with it until I started to get a little education on the dietary needs of a typical bully breed. When we switched from Science Diet to Timberwolf we saw rapid and amazing changes.
1) Increased energy
2) Less frequent bowel movements
3) Bowel movements resulted in smaller piles (less filler that just gets passed thru the digestive system such as grain)
4) LESS GAS - no kidding I used to think our dog breathed thru his ass because he was farting all the time. He toots about 3 to 5 times a day now as opposed to 5 to 10 times per hour.
5) Nearly eliminated itchy skin
6) His coat became brilliant, smooth and shiny over about 3 weeks.

Hope this is of use to someone. One day I hope to make my own raw food. Just don't have the time right now.

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Feeding Raw

Postby cmjfriesians » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:57 pm

Other than it being somewhat time consuming, and gross, I don't understand why people are against feeding raw. Yes, the meat can have bacteria. Yes, it can have parasites. But, have you ever heard of a wolf cooking a rabbit, or a cat roasting a bird before chomping down? Carnivore's systems are fully capable of handling bacteria, and if you are overly concerned about parasites, freeze it for a month. Trichinella can be killed by freezing at proper temperatures for the right amount of time. Healthy dogs can easily deal with bacteria and parasites. If they couldn't we would see more wolves dying of bacterial infection or from parasites, instead of starvation or predation.
Can someone please explain to me the significance of supplementing their dog's diet with veggies? What wolf would eat veggies? The only place they would get fruits or veggies would be from stomach contents of their prey, and it has been shown that wolves shake the stomach contents out before they eat the stomach itself. If food was scarce, yeah, they would go for plant material to survive, but that doesn't mean it is ideal for them or that they need it if supplied with what they do need.
So please, can you hit me with what reasons you have to not feed raw?

Thanks!

Jen :)

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Time & cost of feeding raw

Postby cmjfriesians » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:17 pm

Lol, ok so I read a lot of posts that said most people don't feed raw due to cost and time. I am here to tell you that I am 1. lazy 2. a procrastinator and 3. frugal, so if I can do the raw feeding thing, you can too! If you want to, that is. No, dogs are not wolves, but genetically they are extremely close, and have the same digestives system. So yeah, you can go through the trouble of cooking your meat, but why bother?
Anyway, the most time consuming part of raw feeding for me is just searching out who's got the cheapest what where. Once I buy the meat, I just whack it up, weigh it, and make up a bag of food for each day. I usually take an hour or two once a month and make up a couple weeks worth of meals. That way you can just take one out of the freezer and thaw it in the fridge overnight when you need it. They can eat it half frozen. Actually, my dog HATED liver when I first introduced it to him. He turned his nose up at it. But I froze it, and cut it up into cubes, and man did he gobble those up!
If you are smart enough to figure out what you as a human should be eating to meet your nutritional requirements (generally), then you can figure out what your dog needs. Granted, it does take some research, but it isn't rocket science. www.mypetcarnivore.com does an excellent job of explaining raw food basics. The best part is, if you are following a whole prey or prey model diet, you don't have to worry about grinding, supplementing, buying expensive pre-made diets, etc. Your goal is to come as close as possible to providing what a wolf would eat in the wild - whole prey. It can be as easy as buying a whole chicken - usually less than $1/lb, and some organs - liver, heart, gizzard, etc. - $.50/lb, dividing it into appropriate meals, and voila! easy. Of course, after your dog adjusts to one kind of protein, you slowly introduce other proteins for variety. Beef, pork, venison, goat, duck, buffalo, rabbit... whatever you can get your hands on for cheap. I have had to be rather creative to get a variety of inexpensive meats, but it most certainly CAN be done.
If you do decide to switch to raw, your dog probably will get the runs for a little bit. After all, you are introducing a whole new diet to him, and his gut is probably deficient in beneficial enzymes and bacteria to help deal with raw meat. But, rest assured, if you do it properly, you will be amazed at the results. Plus, your dog will never have bad teeth, provided that you give him big enough portions of meat and edible bone for him to work on.
I am no expert at raw, but if you want any help or info on how to get started, feel free to drop me a line!
Or, if you disagree with any of what I have said, let me know. I am very open to discussion. :)


Jen

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Sarah
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Re: Feeding Raw

Postby Sarah » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:28 am

cmjfriesians wrote:Healthy dogs can easily deal with bacteria and parasites. If they couldn't we would see more wolves dying of bacterial infection or from parasites, instead of starvation or predation.


Dogs are not wolves.

I'm pretty sure I answered this thread already, and I'm not sure why you need moreanswers when there are so many already, but it would be tremendously expensive for me to feed raw, because the first thing I'd have to do would be to purchase a freezer. Remember that not everybody has one of those. I currently feed 3 dogs (in the 30 pound range) a quality kibble at about $30/month, and I don't see how I could possibly wind up anywhere near that low a cost buying meat. Particularly since I'd have to factor in the freezer cost.

I also don't want to feed raw. My dogs thrive on the diet they are fed, and I don't see a need to change it. Dogs are a scavenger species, and can do well on a variety of diets.

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Postby pblove » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:59 am

It can be as easy as buying a whole chicken - usually less than $1/lb, and some organs - liver, heart, gizzard, etc. - $.50/lb, dividing it into appropriate meals, and voila! easy.

maybe where you live you can buy a chicken for $1 a pound, not here
I was looking at small whole chickens over the weekend, cheapest one I found was $9.00 and it was very small(forgot the weight of them now), and they were some no name brand stuffed in a plastic fruit type bag with a twistie tie, probably full of who knows what of steroids/ chemicals
Cheapest ground beef on sale, if you by minimum of 3 pounds is $3 a pound, then the prices go up for all the other meats.I have never seen gizzards or any organ meats for $.50 a pound either.
I would have to drive over an hour each way to find a larger town to shop for better prices, there goes any savings I 'might' have found with gas, wear and tear on my car and my time! Same with the yahoo raw feeding lists, would have to drive at least 1 1/2 hours each way for pick up day of the meats.
feeding two dogs at those prices is not affordable for me and like Sarah said, dogs are not wolves, thousands of years removed from them has made a difference (according to what I have read )
I alternate with high quality kibble, some raw meals, some lightly cooked meats/fishaded to their kibble, and some pre made raw here.

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Postby Amie » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:48 pm

I live sort of near PBLove. I did see Perdue roasters in the grocery store for $1 a pound a few weeks ago. It was a sale, and I grabbed three. They're normally significantly more than twice that. I would agree with her prices on beef and other meats.

I am close enough to the city that I can reasonable participate in some co-ops, and that's where I get most of my meats. Even then I don't find meat for $1 a pound - I try to vary what I get, and spend an average of $2.50 - $2.75 a day for all four animals (three cats eat one pound, one dog eats one pound, that's two pounds of food a day)

In other words, location makes a huge difference when you're talking about price.


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