Vegan Pits

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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luvnstuff
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Postby luvnstuff » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:48 pm

I do not eat most meat (some fish and organic eggs )

My dog (terrier) is on Vegatarian kibble due to allergies (and man do I catch flack from people who know me who think I do it because I dont eat meat)
but that couldnt be further from the truth, like Maryellens dog, we have really been challenged with foods for my own dog Jack.

I do feed veggie kibble, BUT I try when I can afford it , go to the organic store and get REAL , FRESH (frozen) meat from a local farm co-op.
The farms are local, the animals are mass produced, hormone and antibiotic stuffed, and are more free range.
Why I dont think I could ever manage to eat pork, chicken, turkey, beef, etc.
My dog needs this as a supplement to his veggie chow.
They sell tubes of dog/animal feed with bones ground in it.
I think it is great for the dog.

I also add in organic yogurts and eggs and healthy people food on occasion (when I actually cook for me that is) for the dog(s).

I think kibble food is a mess, and just when I thought it was actually turning slightly for the better, seems corporate world cannot stop buying junk in ALL kibble food and finding foods that work forever for dogs seems to be more and more challenging.

So vegan for a dog.

Can you find a way to find a farm co-op like mine ? I do think dogs need some more than veggie grain and soy based foods (as soy now seems to be something of controversy as most is stupidly imported .....)

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merriterrier
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Postby merriterrier » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:20 pm

Well, I have learned a lot about veggi dog diets. Now I must go give my dogs their chicken.

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LindsaySF
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Postby LindsaySF » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:19 pm

Odnarb wrote:Honest question...

If somebody is that against using animal products or feeding meat, why do they get animals like dogs and cats? There are other lovely animals out there that don't require animal products, such as goats, rabbits, iguanas, guinea pigs, llamas, etc.

Just something I've always wondered...

I have often wondered the same.



Pinkcow, fish absolutely feel pain. Even some relatively 'simple' creatures (on an evolutionary scale) feel pain sensation. Ants, worms, etc, have nervous systems.

I think it's great that you care about the environment. :thumbsup: You can try switching your allergy dog to a fish-based kibble, it might work out ok. Let us know!





~Lindsay~

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pinkcow
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Postby pinkcow » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:28 pm

I am still doing my research. I don't know what food I'm going to pick, if I do change their diet. I was thinking at least I can buy free range eggs to add to their food. I really don't know.

I know that fishing is destroying the ocean. I know fish have some physical pain, but not like we and our furry friends do...

I honestly just can't buy a food where an animal is being tortured or is brought up in horrible conditions.

And I have dogs and cats because they live happily with us.. Most bunnies I know would rather be in their natural environments, birds lizards, etc.

Or should I have left my pitbull on the street where my neighbors used him for bait, and gotten a bunny instead!?

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amelie
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Postby amelie » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:35 pm

i think the eggs are a really good idea pinkcow. :thumbsup:

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Rinalia
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Postby Rinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:36 pm

Odnarb wrote:Honest question...

If somebody is that against using animal products or feeding meat, why do they get animals like dogs and cats? There are other lovely animals out there that don't require animal products, such as goats, rabbits, iguanas, guinea pigs, llamas, etc.

Just something I've always wondered...


Probably for the same reason anyone else gets a dog or a cat.

I love rabbits, really I do, but in my experience (I've only owned two), I have never found the bond that I've found with dogs. I'm not a reptile person, though I've fostered one lovely iguana and I enjoy them from afar. Guinea pigs, while adorable and inquisitive and generally totally fun, just can't go on a 5-mile hike, then play fetch. And I live in an apartment, so that rules out the herbivorous farmed animals.

I adore dogs. And I cannot imagine my life without one (I can easily imagine my life without a cat, rabbit, guinea pig, iguana, or those evil spitting llamas).

And while I am vegan, and it IS painful to feed Mina meat - I do it. I source most of her feed ingredients from locally raised farmed animals; often animals who live on farms that permit tours and interactions (unlike 90% + of corporate-owned factory farms).

I accept my hypocrisy on this matter. I realize and understand that we comparmentalize and place value judgements. Objectively, the life of any chicken, cow, pig or other farmed animal is not worth more than my dog's. Subjectively, I am irrational and protective and I will feed my dog the raw flesh of animals *I* won't consume, animals *I* strive to help through my work and actions. And that is that.

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Rinalia
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Postby Rinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:53 pm

pinkcow wrote:I was thinking at least I can buy free range eggs to add to their food.


Egg-laying hens often have horrible lives. There is no federal mandate (or state law) that dictates what "free-range" means. I can legally house 50,000 hens in a large building, with no access to grass or sun and call it free-range, so long as the birds aren't in battery cages.

If you go the free-range route, find out how the animals are housed. Find out if they debeak. Find out what they do with the male chicks (most places kill them the day they are sexed). Find out when they slaughter (average age is 1.5-2 years; smaller farms differ). And if you still feel comfortable, pick the "best" place from your choices and give the eggs. They're a great source or protein and calcium.

I know that fishing is destroying the ocean. I know fish have some physical pain, but not like we and our furry friends do...


I really have to take you to task on this. No animal feels pain in the exact same way - pain is not merely the firing of nociceptors, it also has an emotional and environmental component. The degree to which any individual animal feels pain can vary based on age, health, previous experience with noxious/uncomfortable stimuli, pain threshold, etc. ad naseum.

The fact remains that, in many recent studies, fish exhibit the similar behavioral indicators of pain that mammalian and avian species do - lethargy, not eating food, avoidance of painful stimuli, seeking out food laced with pain medication, etc. They also exhibit firing of neural pain receptors similar to mammalian and avian nociceptors.

Evolutionarily, it would be weird for fish species, animals who depend on their fleeing capabilities to avoid consumption or attack to NOT feel pain. Pain is a key indicator to most species to avoid the source of pain (like maybe the teeth of a shark or dolphin) and also to slow down when injured.

I honestly just can't buy a food where an animal is being tortured or is brought up in horrible conditions.


Then take it upon yourself to go the extra mile, fork out the extra dough, and find farms that fit your standards. Organic, small family farms often have an open-door policy - you can come and see the facility, witness the interaction between farmer and the farmed animals and determine if the facility treats their animals with a modicum of decency and compassion before killing them.

Or, if your ethics truly prohibit you from feeding your dogs meat - don't just feed a dry kibble (with unknown ingredients from potentially environmentally unsound sources)...research a home-made vegetarian diet that can also fit your ethical beliefs. Just remember, we have created a species incredibly dependent on humans. Dogs have no true say in what they can and cannot eat, where they can and cannot go. I want to provide my dog with a diet that is not merely healthy and good, but that is also easy for my dog to process and digest. And for carnivores, meat is generally that diet.

Most bunnies I know would rather be in their natural environments, birds lizards, etc.


European rabbits are domesticated, just like dogs and cats. They may no longer have an appropriate "natural" habitat to live in. Besides, I know plenty of house rabbits who are happy, healthy and quite content to rule the roost. I imagine rabbits kept in hutches their whole lives may react differently to being "free" than rabbits who are already permitted free access to bunny-proofed homes & yards.

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hwillm1977
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Postby hwillm1977 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:33 am

We live in a city surrounded by rural areas, within a 10 minute drive I can find people who raise pigs, cows, chickens, sell eggs and farm fresh veggies from a roadside stand... I can see the animals and how they are treated, I know one farmer that allows me to buy a calf each spring, and each fall I receive a butchered cow (it's about $400 for the entire cow, enough to FILL a large deep freeze)...

I'm sure there are places similar to these everywhere, it's a matter of doing research and finding places that meet your standard. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I do eat meat that I know was raised locally (and usually I've met) and was treated well. You really never know where meat in a supermarket has come from.

Wooderson
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Postby Wooderson » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:10 am

Why not just feed Ol' Roy? No animals harmed in any way....

:bully:

rotten kot!

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erocktxmade
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Postby erocktxmade » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:52 am

hwillm1977 wrote:We live in a city surrounded by rural areas, within a 10 minute drive I can find people who raise pigs, cows, chickens, sell eggs and farm fresh veggies from a roadside stand... I can see the animals and how they are treated, I know one farmer that allows me to buy a calf each spring, and each fall I receive a butchered cow (it's about $400 for the entire cow, enough to FILL a large deep freeze)...

I'm sure there are places similar to these everywhere, it's a matter of doing research and finding places that meet your standard. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I do eat meat that I know was raised locally (and usually I've met) and was treated well. You really never know where meat in a supermarket has come from.


Yeah, we get a cow every year butchered from our land it it fills to the brim a bigass freezer. Its great, steak after steak after steak and ground beef, the dogs love the tongue and all the other parts we would probably turn our noses at. And yeah, the commercial meat, Ill be the first to say, I LOVE! But where it comes from, if we saw, I am sure we would be horrified at just the sheer volume of what goes through a big slaughterhouse. And Ive heard they are so pumped full of hormones a lot of them cant move because they are so heavy. But I like 99 cent double cheeseburgers from McDonalds, my dog does too, and for that, I am sure the show will go on. But to the alternative, the OP can get a cow butchered from a little farm at a local butcher/meatmarket. I know the one by my house will sell you their scraps for REAL cheap, like knuckles and legbones for 10 cents a pound. Also, they can go for the meat that is on its' last day for 80% off, then freeze it.

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miette
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Postby miette » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:38 pm

dog's digestive systems are made to break down meat.

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FransterDoo
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Postby FransterDoo » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:16 pm

pinkcow wrote:I am still doing my research. I don't know what food I'm going to pick, if I do change their diet. I was thinking at least I can buy free range eggs to add to their food. I really don't know.

I know that fishing is destroying the ocean. I know fish have some physical pain, but not like we and our furry friends do...

I honestly just can't buy a food where an animal is being tortured or is brought up in horrible conditions.

And I have dogs and cats because they live happily with us.. Most bunnies I know would rather be in their natural environments, birds lizards, etc.

Or should I have left my pitbull on the street where my neighbors used him for bait, and gotten a bunny instead!?


www.sfraw.com
www.eatwild.com

are both good resources.

craigehaze

maybe you should keep sheep

Postby craigehaze » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:18 am

:)

craigehaze

maybe you should keep sheep

Postby craigehaze » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:19 am

:) you would never have to feed them meat :)

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merriterrier
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Postby merriterrier » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:54 pm

I feel that the best way to deal with the moral/ethical issues surrounding the meat/chicken industry is to buy local, responsibly/humanely raised, meat and eggs. It is not hard and in many ways is cheaper. Chickens lay eggs whether people are eating them or not, and most livestock will be slaughtered to go on someones dinner plate. I want my steaks to come from happy, healthy, natural animals. I feel that it is important to support well managed, ethical farmers.
With this option your pointy toothed animal gets to eat meat from an animal who got to live a fairly pleasant life before becoming dinner (much like in the wild).


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