Opinions on this food.

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Ultimatek9
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Opinions on this food.

Postby Ultimatek9 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:26 pm

I am thinking about adding this line into our pet food store. My dogs and cats absolutely loved the samples that I took home. My cats actually chewed the bag open.
To me it is similiar to Innova Evo or Nature's Variety Raw Instinct. The differences that make me lean toward Orijen include: adding an assortment of beneficial botanicals, they list their raw product sources (where they get the protein, veggies, water, etc.), they quarantee their poultry is no hormone/no antibiotics/and free range, and they offer different life stages (puppy, adult, senior) instead of one-size-fits-all.

Take a look and let me know what you guys think. If it was available in your area, would you buy it? Apparently it just became available in the US, and is only carried in a couple stores so far. Their website is http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/about/.

Thanks for your opinions and thoughts.

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BrentS
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Postby BrentS » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:06 pm

it looks good but it really doesn't give a break down of the ingrediants or percentages that I could find. 0% grain and a lot of meat is sounds like though, sounds good.

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bullylady
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Postby bullylady » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:16 pm

Looks good to me. Here is the ingredient list:
I would not feed white potatoes of any kind due to possible health issues arising, but thats me. I have seen so much worse. There are always give and takes on what people like to feed and what we are "supposed" to feed(which is different to everyone), so whatever floats your boat.


fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate.

TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS
Chicory, burdock and marshmallow root (FOS), rosehips, stinging nettle, marigold flowers, L-carnitine, fennel seed, chamomile flowers, milk thistle, chickweed, summer savory.

ORGANIC MINERALS
Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS
Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium (B. bifidus), Saccharomyces (S. boulardii).

PREMIUM VITAMINS
Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of vitamin B6).

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MANSTAFF
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Postby MANSTAFF » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:34 am

I feed Jax Orijen large puppy he loves it and he is doing really well,no allergic reactions or neg. effects to report. 5 months before I brought Jax home I started researching food as it has changed dramatically in the past 10 years, I found a quality petstore with an owner who was as interested in my pets health as I was. He photocopied an article from The Edmonton Journal about the Alberta made dog food. You might find it on the Edmonton Journal website it gives you a little history.
Lee. :peace:

Doberpit

Postby Doberpit » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:26 am

Looks like a quality kibble to me. Another thumbs up.

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Lmporter03
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Postby Lmporter03 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:12 am

here's a review on orijen adult.

The first three ingredients of this food are all named meat products, two of which are in meal form. There are further meat ingredients fourth and seventh on the ingredient list. We can thus have a high level of confidence in the meat content of this food, which the manufacturer states to be 70% of the total.


This is an entirely grainless dog food. The major carbohydrate source is potatoes, which are also a good source of B vitamins and other minerals. There is a good range of fruits/vegetables in the food, whole eggs and a good range of probiotics.


This food is outstanding in that it contains no grains whatsoever. Grains are not a natural part of a canine diet and it is pleasing to see dog foods on the market that exclude grains completely from the diet. This is a far more natural food concept and combined with a complete lack of any low quality or controversial ingredients is the reason this food is placed in a class above the more conventional form dry dog foods.


The only caution we would make on this food is that the high protein content makes it suitable for adult dogs only, particularly in the case of large breeds.


Note: Our review is based on information about the ingredients in the food only, not manufacturing processes. We are unable to locate any guarantee on the manufacturer website of the use of solely Ethoxyquin-free ingredients. Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative commonly added to fish ingredients and that is believed to be carcinogenic. Potential users of the food would be advised to contact the manufacturer for information before buying this product.

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MANSTAFF
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Postby MANSTAFF » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:18 am

I forwarded questions on protein content as well as Ethoxyquin preservative. I will post their reply A.S.A.P.
Lee. :thumbsup:

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MANSTAFF
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Postby MANSTAFF » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:11 am

The reply;
Hello Lee - thanks for your email enquiry, and especially for letting us know that your Staffordshire is doing well. To answer your 2 questions:

1. Protein level too high for large breeds? We don't think so –especially not for an American Staffordshire which is 40-50lbs at adult size. More and more, science is supporting high protein low carbohydrate dog foods. I’ve copied a few excerpts below from studies with Giant Breeds (Great Dane Puppies).

2. We guarantee ORIJEN products are free of ethoxyquin. The fresh fish arrives fresh (not frozen, not dried) and has no preservatives added at all. The salmon meal is batch produced spefically for us, and is preserved with NATUROX - which is a combination of citric acid, rosemany and mixed tocopherals (vit E.), which is also added to the food itself.




Herman A. Hazewinkel, D.V.M., Ph.D., professor of veterinary medicine at Utrecht University, led the research that found no detrimental effects from protein levels up to 32 percent of the diet. However, puppies fed a diet of only 15 percent protein showed evidence of inadequate protein intake."

"Too low protein decreases the growth rate of puppies and also their immunological response," Hazewinkel says. "This is true for large- and small-breed puppies. An adequate protein level should be higher than 15 percent."

"This study, conducted in young Great Danes during their first half-year of life, concluded that dietary protein increased to 32 percent does not negatively affect skeletal or cartilage development in these dogs. The research also confirmed that dietary protein did not have detrimental effects on liver and kidney functioning."

So the conclusion of the above referenced research stresses the need for high quality protein to achieve the best growth and immune systems. No proof was found that protein amounts affect skeletal growth in any adverse, except when using too little or too poor quality.

www.eukanuba-eu.com
This article reiterates that high protein does not cause OCD or HD, in either the hips or elbows:

Research into the growth of Great Danes (Nap RC, The Netherlands,) has shown that the protein level of a diet has no significant influence on skeletal development. High protein intake does not result in increased risk for OCD or HD, and there is no effect on the development in the longitudinal growth of the bone."

Additionally, while protein does not cause orthopedic problems, other nutrients can.

www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu
"In addition to excessive calcium intake, researchers have shown that over nutrition can also initiate these disturbances in skeletal maturation and growth. An excess protein intake, without an excess of other nutrients revealed NOT to influence skeletal maturation and growth in growing Great Danes (Ref. 2)."

This would include supplementation of calcium to processed diets, or could occur when feeding raw diets to puppies that are more than 50% raw meaty bones. Calcium amounts are adequate in commercial pet foods, and a diet of no more than 40% to 50% raw meaty bones is an appropriate amount for a growing puppy. This article also concludes that certain breeds may require less calcium than others for proper growth:



"Disturbances of skeletal growth were also seen in research animals (Great Danes), which were energy restrictedly raised on a food with a normal calcium level (1.0~56 calcium on dry matter base, according to the requirements of dogs as followed by many of the manufacturers and owners for dog food preparation). Therefore we now advise to raise dogs, vulnerable for these skeletal diseases, on a balanced food with a calcium content decreased to 0.8 or 0.9% on dmb (dry matter basis)."

Further, the above article goes on to state:

"Therefore it is advised not to feed young dogs ad libitum or excessively, to prevent the development of (causative factors for) osteoartrosis. It is also common practice to advise a weight loosing programme to those dogs which suffer from osteoarthrosis as an aspect of conservative treatment or as an aid in surgical treatment of dogs with ED."

It is not excess protein that causes joint problems, but over feeding dogs can contribute to arthritis and orthopedic problems. Please note that most orthopedic and joint problems are inherited, but puppies and dogs that are over weight have a greater chance of an increase in pain and discomfort, and the potential of developing orthopedic problems as younger animals and arthritis later on in their life.

And while some nutritionists recommend feeding more fiber than meat and protein for weight gain, this can also have consequences, as it can block absorption:

www4.nas.edu
"The most obvious way to help a dog trim down is to feed it smaller amounts of food on its regular feeding schedule, and to make sure the dog is not being fed table scraps or getting into the food bowls of other dogs in the neighborhood. Owners may also choose a low-calorie "diet" dog food or food high in fiber, which may help the dog feel full without consuming too many calories. Too much fiber, however, can reduce the absorption of important nutrients."

In conclusion, a logical response to feeding puppies would include:

- Use high quality proteins:

These include using premium brands of dog food, or if feeding a raw or home cooked diet, use as much variety in animal proteins as possible. Don't skimp on the amount of proteins fed as these contribute to healthy growth, organ health and strong immune systems.

- Keep puppies and growing dogs lean.

Overweight and obese dogs have a much higher chance of developing arthritis and orthopedic problems.

- Don't overdose the Calcium:

Do not supplement with calcium if you use a commercial diet. For raw diets, use 50% or less of raw meaty bones in growing dogs. For home cooked diets, supplement at no more than 800 milligrams per pound of food served.

- Don't use high fiber diets for weight reduction:

Fiber, starches and grains can actually block certain nutrient uptake from the food served.

Contact Me
If you would like to ask me any questions about my products, I would love to hear from you. Please check your return address when you send me email from my web site and try to write me again if you have not heard back from me.

To email: lew@b-naturals.com
To order call toll free: 1-866-368-2728
To fax an order: 1-763-477-9588
Email orders are also accepted

© Copyright 2003 Lew Olson, All Rights Reserved



Does high protein cause kidney disease?

No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products). These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream which can harm other tissues.



Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem that is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a normal amount of protein without worrying about "damaging" or "stressing" your pet's kidneys. Also, keep in mind the fact that you are not "saving" your pet's kidneys by feeding a low-protein diet.

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MANSTAFF
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Postby MANSTAFF » Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:50 pm

bump

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chewbecca
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Postby chewbecca » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:16 am

I would consider feeding this food.

But, I'm not in Canada.
Is this strictly a Canadian food or is it available in the states as well??

This REALLY sounds like a good food AND AND AND, I LOVE the fact that they say their food is low ash. That comforts me because I don't necessarily believe that high protein is what is damaging as much as it is the ash content. Besides, I add water to Ella's kibble.

I currently feed raw, but Ella is experiencing what my vet thinks to be food allergies.
I'm REALLY considering putting her back on kibble, but I have not made up my mind yet.

I might email the company to see if it's available in the states anywhere.

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ABPitLover
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Postby ABPitLover » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:36 am

Oh crap - I did a search to compare this to Go Natural! but I spelled it wrong lol

Bogart tasted a sample of this and went crazy for it. I might try it out but I don't know - I know his breeder will NOT want me feeding a 40% protein food. I'm really apprehensive about it.


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