Vaccination debate article

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:32 am

Sirian wrote: I have weighed the pros and cons of vaccinating and I think the risk far outweight the benefits.


Spend a week in africa lately? With globalized travel and immigration, its well known that diseases are easily transmitted across oceans. Look at how fast West Nile spread across the country, and it was probably introduced by a single mosquito hitching a ride on an airplane.

Watch videos of babies and adults that are deformed and paralyzed by polio and tell me if you would rather risk a life of pain and social inadequacy or cancer late in life. Everything causes cancer these days, I'll take some of that vaccine Thank you!

The only reason people thing the risks outweigh the benefits is because these diseases don't seem real anymore. You don't understand what the real risk is, so you can turn a blind eye and pretend that cancer is a worse problem.

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Postby Brutus's Mommy » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:37 am

Tortiebaby wrote:I'm not sure if it's true, but my mother always told me that there were more deaths caused from the vaccines than from the diseases they were supposed to protect you from. Again, I don't know if that 100% true, it's ust what my mom said.

However,there is one thing that true: some vaccines contain aborted baby cells in them. How sick is that! I don't think I would want my children to have an aborted baby's cells put in him/her. Makes me wanna barf thinking about it! :yucky:


Funny, that part doesn't bother me at all. I would sincerely love to see some sources saying that more deaths are caused from the vaccines than the diseases themselves.
Tortiebaby wrote:Here's proof, in case ya'll think I'm lieing:

http://www.eadshome.com/vaccines.htm

http://www.cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20 ... ccines.htm

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html (this is a list of the ingredients in vaccines, when reading it look under the "animal by-products" column and you'll see the human ingredients ;_;)

*** http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html *** Everyone should read this one, it tells you all the horrid stuff the vaccines contain, including: antifreeze, mercury, formaldehyde, latex, etc...)


Funny how people are so willing to put that same bs in their bodies multiple times a day when they smoke, but they're not willing to accept it in a vaccine that will protect them from some horrific diseases.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:42 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Sirian wrote: I have weighed the pros and cons of vaccinating and I think the risk far outweight the benefits.


Spend a week in africa lately? With globalized travel and immigration, its well known that diseases are easily transmitted across oceans. Look at how fast West Nile spread across the country, and it was probably introduced by a single mosquito hitching a ride on an airplane.

Watch videos of babies and adults that are deformed and paralyzed by polio and tell me if you would rather risk a life of pain and social inadequacy or cancer late in life. Everything causes cancer these days, I'll take some of that vaccine Thank you!

The only reason people thing the risks outweigh the benefits is because these diseases don't seem real anymore. You don't understand what the real risk is, so you can turn a blind eye and pretend that cancer is a worse problem.

The diseases do not "exist" anymore (they really DO, just not HERE) because of aggressive vaccination protocols.
Did you MISS the article about herd immunity and the mathematic modelling in epidemiology??? I'm guessing you did or you'd not feel the way you do, Sirian - please check them out and you'll understand exactly WHY polio (for one) is still not rampant here in the US.

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Postby Tortiebaby » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:39 am

About the smoking and such, I must agree. People are willing to put one poison in their body but not another. However, I personally do not smoke and VERY rarely drink(I mean, I can count the times in my life on one hand). Sooo....for me, it's not hypocritical. I try to not put any poisons in my body.

I just wish that people would read what's IN vaccines before allowing their children to get them. I mean, nodoby would intentionally let their child play with chemicals or each junk they find outside on the ground would they? Well, then why would someone let their child get a shot that puts poisons into their body?

I just want people to be informed. If AFTER they read what is in the shots, they still want to give them to their children, then by all means...please do. But just know what your doing FIRST.

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Postby Brutus's Mommy » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:47 am

Tortiebaby wrote:About the smoking and such, I must agree. People are willing to put one poison in their body but not another. However, I personally do not smoke and VERY rarely drink(I mean, I can count the times in my life on one hand). Sooo....for me, it's not hypocritical. I try to not put any poisons in my body.

I just wish that people would read what's IN vaccines before allowing their children to get them. I mean, nodoby would intentionally let their child play with chemicals or each junk they find outside on the ground would they? Well, then why would someone let their child get a shot that puts poisons into their body?

I just want people to be informed. If AFTER they read what is in the shots, they still want to give them to their children, then by all means...please do. But just know what your doing FIRST.


What makes you think that people AREN'T informing themselves before choosing to vaccinate their children?

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Postby rednoseErnie » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:47 am

I did a quick search on pubmed, and the first 20 articles about vaccines and autism were all refuting a possible link. I didn't see any research articles that supported such a claim.

I would like to see some more official, primary data concerning the contents of common vaccines and their potential side effects. I'll do some research on pubmed later and come back here.

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Postby Sirian » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:03 pm

Spend a week in africa lately? With globalized travel and immigration, its well known that diseases are easily transmitted across oceans. Look at how fast West Nile spread across the country, and it was probably introduced by a single mosquito hitching a ride on an airplane.


http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/infect ... polio.html

Polio:

Signs and Symptoms

Polio is a viral illness that, in about 95% of cases, actually produces no symptoms at all (called asymptomatic polio). In the 4% to 8% of cases in which there are symptoms (called symptomatic polio), the illness appears in three forms:

* a mild form called abortive polio (most people with this form of polio may not even suspect they have it because their sickness is limited to mild flu-like symptoms such as mild upper respiratory infection, diarrhea, fever, sore throat, and a general feeling of being ill)
* a more serious form associated with aseptic meningitis called nonparalytic polio (1% to 5% show neurological symptoms such as sensitivity to light and neck stiffness)
* a severe, debilitating form called paralytic polio (this occurs in 0.1% to 2% of cases)


I live in the US there has been no wild caught polio since the early 1970's, the only polio that has occurred here has been traced back to vaccines. I have no plans to travel to India or parts of Africa so why should I vaccinate for it? Globalization is nothing new and no wild caught polio since the 70's, if it was going to happen it already would have. ,


The only reason people thing the risks outweigh the benefits is because these diseases don't seem real anymore. You don't understand what the real risk is, so you can turn a blind eye and pretend that cancer is a worse problem.


What is the real risk to contract diseases that are vaccinated against? More importantly what is my childs risk of having serious complications from those diseases? Everything I have read and what my pediatricians have told me there is a very small risk. I am going to take my pediatricians advice over a vet student on PBF.

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Postby Leslie H » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:06 pm

It was my understanding they had ruled out vaccination as a cause of autism.
I've worked in Special Ed for about 22 years now. My feeling is that rather than their being an upswing in autism, there is an upswing in labeling and identifying. There is now something called the "autism spectrum" which includes extreme cases of autism, and autism in it's mildest forms, such as Asperger's Syndrome. People who are labeled "on the spectrum" now, would have been labeled "that weird guy" 20 years ago. So the data includes everyone from an idiot savant to children with social skill and pragmatic language deficits.
PS I vaccinated my son, and vaccinated him some more this year when he spent a month in Dominica.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:40 pm

Brutus's Mommy wrote:
Tortiebaby wrote:About the smoking and such, I must agree. People are willing to put one poison in their body but not another. However, I personally do not smoke and VERY rarely drink(I mean, I can count the times in my life on one hand). Sooo....for me, it's not hypocritical. I try to not put any poisons in my body.

I just wish that people would read what's IN vaccines before allowing their children to get them. I mean, nodoby would intentionally let their child play with chemicals or each junk they find outside on the ground would they? Well, then why would someone let their child get a shot that puts poisons into their body?

I just want people to be informed. If AFTER they read what is in the shots, they still want to give them to their children, then by all means...please do. But just know what your doing FIRST.


What makes you think that people AREN'T informing themselves before choosing to vaccinate their children?

No kidding. That's an insult, to imply that because we vaccinate we're a buncha dolts who can't read or research.
I made the decision to vaccinate because when I was growing up in the 60s, the illnesses we were getting vaccinated against were not THAT far in the past.
In this day and age I suppose since nobody can remember how bad the illnesses were, they feel complacent about them.

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Postby Brutus's Mommy » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:45 pm

msvette2u wrote:
Brutus's Mommy wrote:
Tortiebaby wrote:About the smoking and such, I must agree. People are willing to put one poison in their body but not another. However, I personally do not smoke and VERY rarely drink(I mean, I can count the times in my life on one hand). Sooo....for me, it's not hypocritical. I try to not put any poisons in my body.

I just wish that people would read what's IN vaccines before allowing their children to get them. I mean, nodoby would intentionally let their child play with chemicals or each junk they find outside on the ground would they? Well, then why would someone let their child get a shot that puts poisons into their body?

I just want people to be informed. If AFTER they read what is in the shots, they still want to give them to their children, then by all means...please do. But just know what your doing FIRST.


What makes you think that people AREN'T informing themselves before choosing to vaccinate their children?

No kidding. That's an insult, to imply that because we vaccinate we're a buncha dolts who can't read or research.
I made the decision to vaccinate because when I was growing up in the 60s, the illnesses we were getting vaccinated against were not THAT far in the past.
In this day and age I suppose since nobody can remember how bad the illnesses were, they feel complacent about them.

It is actually my biggest pet-peeve in this whole debate. That those who vaccinate are obviously imbeciles who don't care enough to educate themselves about the risks AND the benefits of the vaccination. That if we would simply do a bit of research, we would automatically jump fence to the other side. I think what some people don't understand is that even after educating ourselves on the risks, that we would still take those small risks because we personally see the benefits outweighing the risks.
Thankfully, I have never been exposed to any of the illnesses nor have I ever met anyone who has, and personally I want to keep it that way.

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:43 pm

Sirian wrote:
What is the real risk to contract diseases that are vaccinated against? More importantly what is my childs risk of having serious complications from those diseases? Everything I have read and what my pediatricians have told me there is a very small risk. I am going to take my pediatricians advice over a vet student on PBF.


Your pediatrician gets as much education in zoonotic and foreign diseases as I get in nutrition.

The risk is small because there aren't carriers anywhere, and if they are, they're so small as to be undetectable. If we stop vaccinating, we lose immunity. The diseases DO exist... just not in our population. I just finished an online course in zoonotic foreign animal diseases. The number of routes for introduction of new diseases is staggering.

Your child is not at risk because we all accepted that small risk. You're using our lives as insurance for your child. Its called herd immunity. If there is only one person carrying the organism, 1 person susceptible, and 98 people who are immune, the chances of the carrier and the susceptible person meeting are very slim.

The homeless carry TONS of nasty contagious diseases. I hope your child doesn't plan on being a good citizen and working with them in the future for community service.

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Postby rednoseErnie » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:54 pm

Leslie H wrote:It was my understanding they had ruled out vaccination as a cause of autism.
I've worked in Special Ed for about 22 years now. My feeling is that rather than their being an upswing in autism, there is an upswing in labeling and identifying. There is now something called the "autism spectrum" which includes extreme cases of autism, and autism in it's mildest forms, such as Asperger's Syndrome. People who are labeled "on the spectrum" now, would have been labeled "that weird guy" 20 years ago. So the data includes everyone from an idiot savant to children with social skill and pragmatic language deficits.
PS I vaccinated my son, and vaccinated him some more this year when he spent a month in Dominica.


I did a brief search of primary literature on Pubmed, and it sounds like the consensus is that Autism-like syndromes have a strong genetic component, and that vaccines have been ruled out as a possible cause.

All of these anti-vaccine websites that are being posted are pretty low on the references. I think its because its a lot of conspiracy theory, very little strng research.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:59 pm

Your child is not at risk because we all accepted that small risk. You're using our lives as insurance for your child. Its called herd immunity. If there is only one person carrying the organism, 1 person susceptible, and 98 people who are immune, the chances of the carrier and the susceptible person meeting are very slim.


AHH There's that term again!! Has anyone else read/studied it!?
It personally irks me that people CAN sit around and not vaccinate, they are putting MY children at risk, because if they get sick with the "old extinct" diseases, and they CAN (Whooping cough was going around in the next town up the Valley from us!!!) it can mutate and our kids will not be as immune as if everyone else vaccinated as well.
People who do not vaccinate are degrading the herd immunity that we're all protected by...

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Postby Kahlie » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:05 pm

Sirian wrote:
I don't know what's going to happen if the gov. decides to change the laws and requires that everyone get vaccinated. Let's just hope that never happens, cause I HATE needles!


The government will never require everyone to be vaccinated, there are religions that do not believe in vaccinations, people with certain medical conditions that cannot be vaccinated, people that question vaccinations in general, not to mention they would be setting themselves up for some serious liability issues if they forced everyone to be vaccinated.

They have a pretty low rate if side effects, because all they really do is stimulate the immune system.


That is incorrect just look at the VAERS reports for example and consider the fact many side effects are not reported. Side effects can be anything from fevers to death.


I've never seen concrete evidence that vaccines cause things like autism, a claim I've seen throw around a lot; I believe that its all speculative are correlative.


I've never seen anything proving that vaccinations do not cause autism. I take my children to a large pediatric practice that is known for being very naturally minded, most people that go there do not vaccinate their children. This is an interesting article about the practice and rate of autism http://www.homefirst.com/autism_dan_olmstead.html. I dont believe that vaccines cause 100% of the cases of autism and I realize the article is not scientific evidence but it certainly is thought provoking.

Autism aside, I seriously question the safety of vaccinations, just look at the old polio vaccine and SV 40. Sure those people were protected from polio but now they are dying of cancer... I have weighed the pros and cons of vaccinating and I think the risk far outweight the benefits.


:thumbsup:

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Postby Sirian » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:56 pm

Your pediatrician gets as much education in zoonotic and foreign diseases as I get in nutrition.


What does zoonotic and foreign disease have to do with measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc?


The risk is small because there aren't carriers anywhere, and if they are, they're so small as to be undetectable.


Yep exactly

If we stop vaccinating, we lose immunity. The diseases DO exist... just not in our population.


Never said they did not exist, but the chances of contracting them are slim and more importantly the chances of serious complications even slimmer.


I just finished an online course in zoonotic foreign animal diseases. The number of routes for introduction of new diseases is staggering
.

Again what does zoonotic disease have to do with this thread?

Your child is not at risk because we all accepted that small risk. You're using our lives as insurance for your child.


Yep your right and I don't care, I guess I am selfish putting my children above the herd. There are no long term studies on the safety of vaccines, vaccines cause more bad reactions than I am comfortable with, and I don't like they way they are manufactured, I am not going to vaccinate until things change.



The homeless carry TONS of nasty contagious diseases. I hope your child doesn't plan on being a good citizen and working with them in the future for community service.


ROFL!!! That is a good one... I did not realize that the only way to be a good citizen was to work with diseased homeless people. Thanks for the advice I will keep it in mind at let my children know to stay away from the filthy disease ridden homeless and the "socially inadequate" cripples as you put it.


It personally irks me that people CAN sit around and not vaccinate, they are putting MY children at risk,


I have heard this before but I have always wondered about this...If your children are vaccinated then they should not be contracting the disease they were vaccinated against.... So what do you care?

because if they get sick with the "old extinct" diseases, and they CAN (Whooping cough was going around in the next town up the Valley from us!!!)


Whooping cough is not an "old extinct disease" it is a bacteria and it can infect you even if you are vaccinated for it. Whooping cough would suck to have but chances are it wont kill you.


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