High protein kibble

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Maryellen
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High protein kibble

Postby Maryellen » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:02 pm

does anyone have actual facts that show high protein kibble like EVO is not good for puppies under a year old?

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beckerhead
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Postby beckerhead » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:28 pm

Of course "I" don't have anything as silly as FACTS, but I will say that if the kibble has protein content that is roughly equivalent average to prey animals, AND as digestible, then it should be GREAT for puppies and adults as well.

My disclaimer is if the breed is a giant dog like Danes, Mast., etc. then you might, and that is "might", have some issues, but I am not 100% sold on that. And if so, it is more our fault for making a breed that can't eat what it should be able to eat, and still function properly. (that is a WHOLE other nut to crack though) :) :)

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Re: High protein kibble

Postby chewbecca » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 pm

Maryellen wrote:does anyone have actual facts that show high protein kibble like EVO is not good for puppies under a year old?


Doesn't Evo state it themselves on their site?
I think they do. Er...I should say Natura's site under the "Evo" section.
The calcium in that food is way too high for growing puppies and can cause bone growth problems in large breed puppies.

What "large breed" is considered, I am unclear of, though.

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Postby Maryellen » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:12 am

does it? i was also hoping for some links to high protein issues if any. where is missikiwi??

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L Boogie
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Postby L Boogie » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:08 am

Taken straight from EVO's website FAQ...

http://www.evopet.com/tools/faqs.asp?view=all

Is EVO Dog Food appropriate to feed to my large breed puppy?

No. We would not recommend feeding EVO premium dog food to a large/giant breed puppy. There are specific Natura products which are intentionally designed for the proper nutritional support of growing puppies with projected mature weights in excess of 60 lbs. EVO was not designed for this purpose.

For the large breed puppy, the growth rate must be optimized, not maximized, and the mineral balance must be tightly controlled to support skeletal growth. The most effective way in which to control these factors is through the judicious use of high-quality carbohydrates. As a grain-free, protein-rich pet food, EVO does not provide the sufficient amount of carbohydrates a growing puppy requires. While EVO is an ideal food for large breed dogs over the age of two, we suggest offering your puppy our Innova Large Breed Puppy formula at this time.

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Postby Erika » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:39 pm

Its not so much a protien issue as it is a calcium/phosphorous issue. The only high-protien grain free formula I have found that had an appropriate cal/phos ratio for puppies is Timberwolf Wild & Natural.

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Postby RM90 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:30 pm

You should check "Orijen". It's available in all life stages and is high-prtoein, grain-free with correct calcium %.

http://www.championpetfoods.com[/url]

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:53 pm

Maryellen wrote:does it? i was also hoping for some links to high protein issues if any. where is missikiwi??


I'm not a fan of EVO period... there are much better, more appropriate formulas available that have improved on the EVO concept if you absolutely insist on a grain-free formula.

Its definately not appropriate for large breed puppies, and I don't like it for puppies in general.

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Maryellen
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Postby Maryellen » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:10 am

i just need any links that show why high protein dry kibble is not good for pups. doesnt matter where it comes from

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:44 am

Maryellen wrote:i just need any links that show why high protein dry kibble is not good for pups. doesnt matter where it comes from


High protein is not bad... but we don't know the effects of high mineral content (nobody uses meat by-products... they're "bad" and meat meal contains a high percentage of bone) and ash that comes along with using a high percentage of meat meal in a food.

We already know that the calcium:phosphorus balance is essential for growing puppies, I'm not even going to bother with worrying about the rest when I KNOW the calcium:phosphorus is off the charts.

Calcium:phosphorus is key to the long-term health of my reptiles... mammals are only slightly more forgiving. Some things are just MORE important than feeding a food that makes you feel good because its "as close to raw as you can get", which is a bunch of bull-$hit anyway because cooked is cooked and raw is raw.

Don't feed a feel-good food, feed a healthy food.

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Postby Hoss » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:51 am

Don't forget, its not the percent of protein, or even calcium, its to total intake in grams. You need to calc that when comparing food. It is impossible to compare, unless you take the time to calc the total intake, in weight, for a given food, per serving, just like we do in human diets. :cool:

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Postby Maryellen » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:21 am

ah so its the cal/phos ratio that is what matters..

i tried telling a woman to not feed her puppy (8 weeks old) evo and she refused to listen to me, said the breeder said it was ok, which was why i was trying to find any links as to why you cant give a high protein to puppies.. that makes more sense..

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Postby Misskiwi67 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:02 am

Maryellen wrote:ah so its the cal/phos ratio that is what matters..

i tried telling a woman to not feed her puppy (8 weeks old) evo and she refused to listen to me, said the breeder said it was ok, which was why i was trying to find any links as to why you cant give a high protein to puppies.. that makes more sense..


Yep, there is no evidence that high protein is bad, in fact, there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. However, when a food company states in big bold paragraphs on their website that the food is bad for puppies... why would a breeder recommend that??

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Postby Maryellen » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:05 am

because the breeder is a byb.. i saw the pup on thursday (the girl works at the hair salon i go to) and when she brought the pup in for me to see the pup was shaking like crazy, and she told me the breeder said to feed the evo... i told her not to, but she is going by what the byb is telling her, and this is her first pitbull pup no less

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Postby Turb0wned » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:13 am

I dont know, I wouldnt feed a very young large/giant breed evo but now that tyson is almost 8 months its what he is about to start eating. I dont see why it would be bad atleast for a dog around his ago to start feeding evo. I read in the link posted above where it said not to feed it but most of you on this site dont even ever start with a puppy formual, in the end there all about the same thing.


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