Is corn really bad, or not?

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Gatorpit
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Is corn really bad, or not?

Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:10 pm

Corn is not an innappropriate food for dogs. In fact, when its in whole form, its one of the best grain sources, and one of the most nutritious sources of calories second to meat. Dogs don't need calories from meat alone, and therefore corn in the diet in appropriate proportions (ie, not science diet, but they haven't gotten the memo yet) is perfectly acceptable.

http://www.beowulfs.com/magazine/corn.htm

And I'll end with what seems to be my new motto: "Don't fall for the hype... ingredient lists aren't everything..."

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Postby PAROTO49 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:13 pm

ummm is science diet really that bad.. thats what i am feeding my pup and he loves it. wats so bad about it. and what would you suggest i replace it with. something that runs about the same price for the lbs??

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:17 pm

However, numerous studies conclude that "food" allergies are very rare in dogs and almost impossible to detect through clinical testing (ie:RAST, ELSIA, Intradermal Skin Testing)


Wow, if this article is true, nearly 100% of the members of this forum are dead wrong about canine nutrition. Apparently (according to the article) not only is whole corn the BEST grain to use in dog food (as opposed to brown rice) but food allergies in dogs are also extremely rare, and impossable to diagnose.

I thought that food allergies were extrmely prevalant in dogs.

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:19 pm

Whya are you asking about science diet in this thread? It would be more appropriate to ask your question in the "crystals' thread, which is discussing SD. This thread is discussing the above posted article, and whether or not we have all been mislead to believe that corn is bad.

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Postby concreterose » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm

I don't feed my dogs corn. They eat meat, so there's no reason that they need protein from corn.

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm

Here is the article for those to impatient for the link.

Corn is among the most misunderstood ingredients in dog food. If the dog food you are feeding contains any corn fillers, specifically corn gluten meal, corn bran, and corn flour then you are not feeding the wholesome corn that dogs can assimilate. Fillers hold little to no nutritional value. They are what remain of corn after the nutritious part has been removed. In fact, corn gluten meal is highly nitrogenous and used as an organic weed killer. It also tests out at 60% protein, however that "protein" is incomplete and of the poorest quality. Manufacturers use fillers as a way to "fill" dog food with cheap ingredients, rather than using the more expensive ground corn. Corn gluten meal, corn bran, and corn flour are NOT the same as ground corn! Foods that contain these fillers are putting profit above nutrition. Due to confusion about corn fillers, and, in part, due to misinformation, corn has gotten a bad wrap. The two most common myths about corn are that corn it is not digestible, and that it is an allergen. These two statements are very misleading to the public and NOT true.
Let's talk about corn...

According to "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition", 4th Edition," corn is 91% digestible. This immediately dispels the myth that corn is not digestible. The story goes... look at how corn comes out when we eat corn on the cob (or some variation on the same crude story), so it can't be very digestible. The reason an ingredient list for pet food says "ground corn" instead of just "corn" is because whole corn is finely ground before it is added to the food. The outer layer of the corn kernel is impervious to stomach acid and grinding the corn is necessary to expose the very digestible inner part of the kernel to the digestive process. Unfortunately, there are people that would rather sell their "corn free" product than to give out correct information. Interestingly, many of these companies do not have access to the corn growing states. The most basic research can attest to the high digestibility of ground corn.

The second myth is interesting, as well. It seems that almost every other dog in America has been diagnosed as having one food allergy or another. However, numerous studies conclude that "food" allergies are very rare in dogs and almost impossible to detect through clinical testing (ie:RAST, ELSIA, Intradermal Skin Testing) (see "Food Allergies in Canines: Behind the Hype" for more information). The only proven way to find a food allergy is to remove your animal from all medication, feed whole, natural foods not usually eaten by that animal, then introduce foods back into the diet one by one. Even with this method, food allergies are extremely rare. Of 200 confirmed cases, corn caused only 3. Let's think about this... to even confirm an allergy is rare. Of the few cases confirmed only 1.5% resulted from corn. In a survey of veterinary dermatologists, corn was not listed among the ingredients most often suspected to cause food allergies.

Why feed corn?


Corn is 91% digestible
Corn is one of the best sources of linoleic acid
Corn oil is one of the best sources of Omega 6 fatty acid (linoleic acid) which is great for skin and coat
Corn provides essential amino acids and fiber.
"Corn is nutritionally superior grain compared with others used in pet foods because it contains a balance of nutrients not found in other grains." - Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th edition

Finally, the quality of any ingredient in a dog food is of paramount importance. The following is an analogy with two apple pies. One pie is made with a ripe, beautiful apple off the tree. The second pie is made with an old rotten apple. On an ingredient list both pies would say "made with apples". Which pie would you want to eat? This is the same with pet food. Feed whole, healthy ingredients and your animal will flourish. Feed by-products, fillers, and chemicals and your animal will not. Remember that if even one ingredient in the food you are feeding were human grade, the producers of that food would make sure you knew. Only feed foods which contain ingredients form human sources.

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Postby SFBullyGirl » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:22 pm

I know of a lady that started her own dog food company and she uses corn, she says it is the type of corn used that makes a difference. Here is the site

http://www.kumpi.com/home.html


I have never used it but heard some people that have liked it.

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Postby El_EmDubya » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:28 pm

Please quote the source for info like this.

Marie

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Postby aznchipmunk » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:28 pm

PAROTO49 wrote:ummm is science diet really that bad.. thats what i am feeding my pup and he loves it. wats so bad about it. and what would you suggest i replace it with. something that runs about the same price for the lbs??


this was on another site from a while back and its somewhere on this forum too (but this place has gotten so huge)

Here is a way to find out how good the dog food is you are feeding your dogs.

How to grade your dog's food: Start with a grade of 100:
1) For every listing of "by-product" , subtract 10 points
2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal
or
fat) reference, subtract 10 points
3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points
4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 5
points
5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first
five
ingredients (I.e. "ground brown rice", "brewers rice", "rice flour" are
all
the same grain), subtract 5 points
6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2
meats
in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points
7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points
8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3points
9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points
10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2
points
11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is
allergic
to other protein sources), subtract 2 points
12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points
13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog is not allergic
to
wheat), subtract 2 points
14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog is not allergic
to
beef), subtract 1 point
15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:
1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points
2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add
5
points
3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points
4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points
5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points
6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3
points
7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2
points
8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points
9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points
10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point
11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point
12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than the
first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein
source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point
13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point
14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are
pesticide-free, add 1 point

Score:
94-100+ = A 86-93 = B 78-85 = C 70-77 = D 69 and below = F

Here are some foods that have already been scored.

Dog Food scores:
Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+
Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F
Canidae / Score 112 A+
Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+
Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F
Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B
Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A
--male genitalia-- Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
--male genitalia-- Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+
Foundations / Score 106 A+
Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B
Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D
Innova Dog / Score 114 A+
Innova Evo / Score 114 A+
Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+
Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B
Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B
Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F
ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+
Purina Beneful / Score 17 F
Purina Dog / Score 62 F
Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F
Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+
Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+
Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A
Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F
Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F
Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+
Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A


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Postby maximusflys » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:29 pm

Feed your dog a can of corn and see what comes out the other end? That will tell you how digestable it is. I know how it comes out of my end and it's about 91% whole.

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:30 pm

Read the article. It claims the outer shell of the grain prevents digestion, that is why it is usually ground in animal food.

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:32 pm

EL_EmDubya wrote:Please quote the source for info like this.

Marie


http://www.beowulfs.com/magazine/corn.htm

It was in the very first post.

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:44 pm

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3points
9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points


Where did this article originally come from?

Everything I have ever heard, from every source, has said that corn is bad, and is the reason why everyone says such and such brands are bad (pedigree, purina, ol'roy) or at least the biggest reason, since corn is listed first.

But the article posted by misskiwi (who is either a vet or a vet student I believe) states that corn is the BEST choice.

So, are we all wrong? Have we all been wrong about corn for so long?

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Postby Allie » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:53 pm

Gatorpit wrote:Read the article. It claims the outer shell of the grain prevents digestion, that is why it is usually ground in animal food.


Um yeah, but isn't chewing considered "grinding"? I CHEW my corn and still can't digest it...

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Postby Gatorpit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:56 pm

Honey, no need to get snippy. I am under the impression that corn IS bad, but like I said, a vet affiliated member on this forum is insisting that corn is good.

Not me.


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