Is corn really bad, or not?

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.
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Hoss
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Postby Hoss » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:29 pm

:goodpost:

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Murfins
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Postby Murfins » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:39 pm

x2

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:16 pm

maximusflys wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:
Hoss wrote:Which "corn"are we referring to? There are thousands of different varieties. What grade of corn? and by what party grading standards? Answer those questions, and you will see a dramatic difference in "how bad is corn for dogs?" Shelled out, empty hulls, of twice processed grain kernels, it nothing but filler. Yes there are some nutrients in corn, and a dog could be forced to attempt to assimilate them from it, but give the carnivores their damn meat!

It seems like people think that the corn that goes into low quality dog food, is the same stuff as you buy at a grocery. lol Most would loose their lunch if they seen the maggot infested crap that gets refused for all other means, and is put into dog food. It doesn't even resemble "corn" as most know it.

There is no one correct answer to how good, or bad corn is for canines, there are way to many variables, get specific, and you can find the answers. :peace:


And you think the meat-based ingredients from the same companies that use the corn products such as those described above are any better? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but lets compare apples to apples here...


Yes, I believe those same companies that use cheap corn use cheap meat.


You bet they do... thats what I was attempting to say, but I had to finish my thought in a hurry between patients... Crappy ingredients make crappy food, and quality whole ground corn is not a bad choice...

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maximusflys
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Postby maximusflys » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:20 pm

Who uses quality whole ground corn?

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Misskiwi67
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Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:09 pm

Any company that uses human grade ingredients COULD use corn, but its got such a bad reputation that they don't. Hills and Purina use human grade corn, inspected and tested before each individual truck is allowed to enter the factory. The ingredients are quality, they just use far too much grain... I can't speak for any of the other manufacturers because I haven't been exposed to their facilities and/or quality standards of practice.

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maximusflys
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Postby maximusflys » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Misskiwi67 wrote:Any company that uses human grade ingredients COULD use corn, but its got such a bad reputation that they don't. Hills and Purina use human grade corn, inspected and tested before each individual truck is allowed to enter the factory. The ingredients are quality, they just use far too much grain... I can't speak for any of the other manufacturers because I haven't been exposed to their facilities and/or quality standards of practice.


They use quality corn but use peanut hulls and use a bunch of preservatives in their foods????????????

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Postby pitgrrl » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:21 pm

Since it hasn't been addressed, besides by EL_EmDubya earlier on in this thread, I have to ask, why use corn?

Let's assume that there are nutrients that, after X amount of processing, are available to dogs, what is corn offering that dogs need or isn't offered by other foods that are more species appropriate and/or available from foods which are overall healthier (like quinoa to continue with an example already given, or whole ground brown rice, yams, millet, amaranth etc.)?......besides money I mean.

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Postby merriterrier » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:37 pm

Here is one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, and I am just curios about it. Corn is a known carrier of Fusarium fungi a mycotoxin. In Humans Fumonisin (one of many forms of Fusarium) can cause folate depletion and is linked to neural tube defects. I don't know if it effects dogs the same way, has anyone heard of this?

Here is an article about Fusarium from more of an agricultural stand point.
http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/id/id121/id121.htm

If you scroll down there is a brief explanation of effects on horses and pigs and further down there is a table of acceptable amounts in human and animal food.

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Postby concreterose » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:09 pm

maximusflys wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:Any company that uses human grade ingredients COULD use corn, but its got such a bad reputation that they don't. Hills and Purina use human grade corn, inspected and tested before each individual truck is allowed to enter the factory. The ingredients are quality, they just use far too much grain... I can't speak for any of the other manufacturers because I haven't been exposed to their facilities and/or quality standards of practice.


They use quality corn but use peanut hulls and use a bunch of preservatives in their foods????????????

:goodpost:

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Hoss
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Postby Hoss » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:44 pm

Hills uses quality corn? human grade? roflmao roflmao You mean Chinese super corn, the stuff that killed off thousands of pets? Come on now, go to the Hills factory, and inspect it for yourself.

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concreterose
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Postby concreterose » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:50 pm

My vet stopped carrying Hill's and told me to take my cat off of it and start making his food!

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Postby picara » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:11 pm

Am I wrong or is the article 'owned' by the back-to-basics dogfood brand that's using corn in its food? In that case it would be advertising dressed up as information.

I don't know about corn, but what all these dog nutrition people are saying about it, alot of human nutritionists are saying, too.

And Maximus has a point about digestibility, gross as his evidence may be!

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Postby Kingsgurl » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:49 am

If Hill's (Science Diet) is so impressed with corn as the 'best' grain, why is it that their brand new (newly formulated/released, used to be a totally different recipe) 'holistic' food (Nature's Best) contain no corn and uses barley instead?? Seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it, as this is being touted (by them) as being their healthiest food yet.

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Postby maximusflys » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:42 am

This is the ingredient list for the SENSITIVE STOMACH ADULT

Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Egg Product, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Oat Fiber, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Tryptophan, preserved with mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

This food almost makes me want to puke and it is supposed to be for sensitive stomachs.

Miiskiwi, let me ask you this, why would they use brewers rice which is the worst of all rice forms to be followed like you said by "quality" ground whole grain corn? and please enlighten how these ingredients make for a sensitive stomach diet?

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Postby Gatorpit » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:15 am

What, exactly, is "dried egg product"? I don't trust it...


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